Could Raising Ticket Prices Be A Way of Forcing UTEP Out Of Div1 FBS Football?

[kyyote]

It occurs to me that if UTEP forced attendance below 15k for two years, if would force UTEP down from Division 1.  Could that be the intention of the powers that be.  If you raise the prices to where no one will pay, you could actually do it and never have to take the blame.  NCAA Bylaw 20.9.9.3  requires at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games throughout the course of two years to maintain a Division I title. 

This is from Oct.  2018:

"UTEP raked in an attendance of more than 19,000 last season. Miner fans now have to make sure average attendance stays above 11,000 this year."

I would have to say, that last season was even worse than the year before, and the upcoming season could be even worse.

[SisyphusMiner]

My filter for conspiracy theories is always "what is the perpetrator gaining by doing this?"

Plausible motivations are almost always power, money, sex, revenge.

Moon landing fake?  "What does the govt get out of it that's worth the effort?"  -- reject for no plausible benefit
JFK assassination? -- Lots of people potentially benefit -- theories worth considering.

So how would Wilson or Senter benefit from this?


Also, speaking of conspiracy theories, I am still concerned about the possibility of point shaving in our basketball.

[kyyote]

Actually, I would include Senter and Wilson as part of it and ask the bigger question, "What could UTEP get from the move down?"  If it is just athletics that are dropped down I think it is easy to see the financial savings.  Or, what would UTEP lose from dropping down?  National recognition?  Well, that could easily be seen as a good thing.  I'm not trying to be snarky about this at all.  I am not trying to create a conspiracy either.  I am asking it seriously and admit I have no idea of whether or not it could be something they are thinking or if it would be a good or bad thing for UTEP.  My only reason for wondering is that with attendance dropping like a rock for both football and basketball a) would there be any advantage for UTEP to drop down a level and b)I am looking for some kind of sensible explanation for raising ticket prices when the attendance is already falling and the product on the field and court is arguably getting worse, not better.

I ask after finding news reports from a couple years ago speaking about the possible danger of not being in compliance, and knowing how bad both the Sun Bowl and The Don have looked empty over the last year or two.  Raising ticket prices just seems inexplicable to me and I wondered if I just wasn't seeing something UTEP powers are seeing.

So, in this case I am not trying to be a smart ass.  My question wasn't intended to be conspiratorial.  It was a real question coming from a lack of knowledge of the possible pro's and con's and perspective from UTEP's top instead of as a fan.

[SisyphusMiner]

I don't have any real insight, but here's a possible train of thought (which I completely disagree with):    We have pretty much bottomed out on attendance.  The fans we lost are fair weather fans who will come back when/if the team is winning.  Raising prices won't lose many of the remaining fans, but it slows the bleed.  Higher prices won't prevent the fair weather fans from coming back if we are winning.

Where I disagree with this is the psychological aspect of playing in front of an empty stadium and of course the ncaa rules you point out.

I'd almost say screw it, let's play a wide open fun as hell offense and charge $2 per ticket. 

[Minermojo]

I love my hometown school but even though I haven't attended any games since my wife got sick I still root for them. However, if UTEP went down from D1 I think I wouldn't care about its sports anymore. I would be making room for other shirts instead of the many that I have of UTEP now. Seriously, I would not follow UTEP sports anymore.

[kyyote]

Making my breakfast just now, I thought, UTEP is a business.  Let's say you own a caf? that serves eggs and pancakes.  For a long time, years, your cooks have not been able to cook eggs worth a shit overcooking them when people ordered over medium and undercooking the scrambled eggs,  The pancakes were so so during that time, but even those ended up kind of burned quite often.  The coffee is pretty good and the staff is great except for the cooks.  Your caf? has a couple of pretty nice, large rooms for parties and other events, but they are getting reserved less and less.  You have been losing customers to the point that it is getting hard to pay the rent and staff.  Two years ago you fired two of the cooks, but instead of the eggs and pancakes getting any better, the eggs and pancakes may have even gotten worse.  Do you raise the prices?  Do you tell your customers that on Saturday and Sunday mornings, your best days, that the prices are going up?  Might you change the two conference rooms around to attract catered dinner crowds instead of trying to fill them on Saturdays and Sundays for eggs and pancakes?  Could you be trying to change over to a coffee shop, a smaller business that makes use of the big rooms for catered events and just cut the staff down to a waitress or two to serve coffee and save the money you are paying the cooks and dishwashers?  The catered events don't cost you any money, the rooms are rented more frequently, and the waitresses can take care of the final cleanup paid well in tips so that they cost no more to you and they are happier.  You still have the coffee drinkers business but eliminate all of the angry customers getting nasty eggs and pancakes.  The people in the community are happier because the coffee shop is popular and the damned caf? is no longer making people mad because the food is so bad.

[SisyphusMiner]

If you were hired as a manager to run the cafe, and you hope one day to run a bigger restaurant and maybe eventually a chain of restaurants, does it enhance your resume to kill the restaurant? 

Assuming Wilson would like to run a more prestigious university at some point, there aren't a whole lot of universities where it's a resume enhancer that your bullet point for the athletics department is "While many programs are moving up to D1, I moved us down to D2"

[liebestraum]

My sole thought:  I don?t think UTEP would willingly drop down to the FCS when you consider all the money they?re spending on Sun Bowl improvements.

Internally, I think the UTEP admin is not happy with the way things are going with Dimel and the team.  What I don?t know is the financial structure of the athletic part of the university and how the money comes in and out of the coffers.  As Ky and others have pointed out so well:  terrible FB costs us money.  You would think something would be done - but nothing is forthcoming.

Quite a conundrum.

lieb

[kyyote]

The ADA forced some of it, but mostly it is being paid for by rich donors who want to watch Power 5 Conferences play in comfort.  It is upgrading the conference rooms for the catered events.  We get Posters in the coffee shop and the bathrooms fixed up a little and a ramp to get in to the coffee shop.  Bernie loves it.  How nice for the Power 5 Conference folks who come to town once a year.

To achieve that, UTEP announced a $10 million to 15 million, 16-month project to install luxury boxes in a new press facility, renovate the concourses and add premium seating on the west side of the stadium.
Sponsored by GECU, the concourse enhancement will be done before the Sept. 1 opener against North Arizona University, while the GECU Terrace ? the name for the new press box facility ? and loge, or private box, and party areas will be completed in time for the 2019 season opener.
"We thank GECU for their partnership, their commitment and their investment in helping get this project underway."
The money will come primarily from private donations, and the stadium could generate as much as $1 million in additional revenue by the middle of the next decade, Senter said.
The renovation will widen the concourses and add elevators on the west side of the stadium, which Senter pointed out will bring the stadium into compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
The concourse upgrade, which Senter described as looking like "something from 'Star Trek,' " is up first.
"When people come back for the opening game against NAU, they'll say, 'Wow,' " Senter said. "They'll feel better about walking to their seats; they'll feel better about using the bathroom."
Hyundai Sun Bowl executive director Bernie Olivas was understandably excited.
"This is awesome; how do I put this into words?" he said. "This is huge, not only for the Sun Bowl, but the city of El Paso. This is something we can show off to the Power Five conferences. It's just amazing. I can't thank UTEP and GECU enough."
Additional revenue generated by the loge boxes will be used to eliminate any debt incurred and to pay for upkeep of the stadium. There won't be increases in student fees or tuition.

[kyyote]

If you were hired as a manager to run the cafe, and you hope one day to run a bigger restaurant and maybe eventually a chain of restaurants, does it enhance your resume to kill the restaurant? 

Assuming Wilson would like to run a more prestigious university at some point, there aren't a whole lot of universities where it's a resume enhancer that your bullet point for the athletics department is "While many programs are moving up to D1, I moved us down to D2"

Wilson is 59 years old.  This is her golden parachute. Retirement is next.  The timing is actually perfect.

Senter is 58 years old.  See above.

Dimel is 57 and with 3 more years he will be 60 too.  Se above and above. 

Pay these three chuckleheads to take it down, and with the fans bitching and getting old themselves, retire. 

I was just wondering when I started this thread.  I was hoping someone could tell me why it was not possible.  The more I look, the more it may actually make sense.

Btw, Look at Dimel's recruiting.  The jc kids will get to finish up on scholarships.  Division I FCS (Football Championship Subdivision) allows 63 scholarships and look and see if he is winding the scholarships down from 85 to 63.  I may not be as crazy as I think.

[SisyphusMiner]

Maybe.  There's probably more local kids that can play FCS. 

I'm not real convinced the $$ work though.  I suppose travel costs are lower, but a 4 win FBS team might get more butts in the seat than an 8 win FCS team.  No one in EP is going to pay $20 to watch FCS.

I don't think I'm buying it.  I'm just not seeing what Wilson gets out of it, unless the UT system has decreed it.

[kyyote]

Let me be clear.  I am not saying it is true.  I'm not trying to sell it as a theory.  I am wondering, and looking at things in a different way to see it it may add up.  It probably isn't the case.  It is most likely more of what has always been UTEP's bad decision making pertaining to sports.  Raising ticket prices for revenue generating teams that are horrible and getting worse is what we might expect from UTEP.  So there is the historically bad decision making versus a maybe crazy idea.  It is most likely bad decision making.  The crazy idea is probably the one that actually makes more sense, so that probably ensures the bad decision making route, for sure.  But, again I am looking for someone to come in and make a sensible argument that my wondering is wrong, and the more I look the more the crazy idea looks less crazy. 

Your last line-Wilson gets a nice job to end her career on, prestige and decent pay, and maybe just maybe UT has tired of having a black eye and stink emitting from one of the fine schools.  The academics the old boys in Austin can take pride in, but the football is just hard to take, especially in Texas where football is king.

[SisyphusMiner]

I have no problem with a good conspiracy theory or thinking outside the box.  I give it about a 10% chance. 

I still like to try to look at it from Wilson's perspective.  She comes in with a fairly new AD who has made recent hires in the big 2 sports and handed them 5 year contracts.  Neither has a history exceeding mediocrity.  The money doesn't exist to start over, so you let it play out for a while.  End of year 3 gets the buyout more reasonable and gives enough time to see progress or lack of it.

You give Senter enough freedom that he can't say he was hamstrung.  You hold him accountable for results at end of year 3.  You don't tell him to fire coordinators, you let him show whether he knows how to run an athletics program.

However, even though I don't expect anyone to get directly called out, a statement like " The last few years have been disappointing and we are looking for significant progress next year to give us confidence we are on the correct path" is pretty bland but at least tells fans you have standards.  Ideally that comes from the AD.

[Chanson]

I really dont think the Miners will go to FCS for a few reasons.
1) Could lose the Sun Bowl. That's a huge economy boost every year & would be an embarrassment to the University and the TX Board of Regiants.
2) Dimel was hired & paid well to advance the program and not de-evolve. Natalicio & Stull were committed to spending money to make $$ and Dimel, in their minds, was the catalyst.
3) We all know it can be done in El Paso. Stull & Price were proof you can have a winning program in El Paso. El Paso used to be hard to recruit to because families stopped communicating with there kids. We all have cell phones, computers, face time, & a miriod of social media options to be close to who ever you want.

All that being said, it still can happen for one big reason. Wilson is fucking weird. Nice, but weird. I have had dinner with her a few times and it wouldn't be odd to me if she made a decision like that. Luckily it's not up to her to make, but I wouldn't put it past her.

[SisyphusMiner]

Interesting.  Can you give some elaboration on "weird" without revealing anything you shouldn't?