Terry Terrible, Dimel Dumbass, Senter Stupid, and Wilson Castaway

[kyyote]

Different schools have different academic missions.  UTEP is unique in that they are non-competitive entry and yet Tier 1 research. That's an identity, and one to be proud of, driven by a vision of a singularly focused president.

Different schools also have different athletic outlooks.  Some just don't give a crap and are only focused on their academic prowess.  Others use their athletics as the face of the university.  Some are so obsessed with winning that they toss aside any kind of standards or ethics at all.  For some, their identity is almost entirely their sports program  Most achieve some kind of reasonable balance.

Historically, we identified ourselves as an OK school academically, but with a rich history in basketball and track.  UTEP was my fallback school academically, when I couldn't get the funds together for the substantially more prestigious engineering school I was accepted to.  I don't regret it at all, that's just how UTEP was viewed at the time.  I don't live in EP anymore but I would assume that perspective has to be changing.  UTEP's academics are now something to be proud of.

But damn the athletics suck.  Due to the way the NCAA is now doing everything to favor the big dogs I have no expectations of national championships.  But it would sure be nice to be in the top half of god-awful CUSA in football and top 2-3 in basketball on a yearly basis.  Maybe athletics doesn't need to be the face of the school but this horrible suckiness is like putting a sewage treatment facility on the front lawn of the capitol building in Austin.  Is this what we want casual tourists to see?

Absolutely.  This is one of the reasons why I love the school so much as it took a chance on me and it changed my life.
This is one reason I am on Wilson's ass.  She has said that athletics (and it may have been specifically football) is the front porch of the university, acknowledging the importance of the football program as a public representation of the university, and our football program doesn't give the public the proper representation of our fine school.  So, she says she recognizes it but continues to allow it to be seen publicly as horrible.  I reject the idea that we can't or don't have to have a winning football program.  I believe we can be an excellent school AND be able to win football games.  I also believe that she understands that.  I don't believe that she has shown the actions and leadership to back it up.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have always been proud of the academics of UTEP as a part of the University of Texas system.  I found that my degree was just as good as anyone else's degree in my field.  I do believe that the engineering part of UTEP had absolutely no reason to not hold their heads high and to take extra pride in the fact that they were able to do it inexpensively and for a population thought not perhaps to be worthy.

I too recognize that we will never be in the hunt for national championships.  I am not asking for that.  I do have expectations of being able to not only compete for C-USA championships, I want even more than that.  We have been slipping in our conference affiliations for decades and I find that to be a problem.  Border Conference, WAC, C-USA have all left us behind and for good reason.  And now, we are the anchor around the neck or a diluted version of C-USA and I can foresee us being left behind again.  I don't like it one damned bit.  And it is because our athletic programs are what the rest of the country sees.  Right or wrong, athletic programs such as football and basketball are a direct reflection of other's perception of the quality of the school.  Our football program tells the world that UTEP the university, sucks and that is as wrong as wrong can be.  I fucking hate it!  And it isn't because I love football.  It is because I love UTEP!  The University of Texas at El Paso is the school that I love and the world sees it as a fucking stinking shitty school that seems not to even care.  That is why I hate what is happening.  That is why I am so passionate about what Wilson is NOT doing.  She should be doing everything she can to defend my school.  She says she knows and yet it continues.  I don't see that as the leadership I expect, especially from someone who was at the helm of a university that is all about leadership!

[Chanson]

I haven't been on the Den in a few days, then I see this thread. I love how you all do the work & post facts & records. Very commendable.
I will say that Dimel didn't hire Senter. That was done by Stull on his way out. Senter didnt have much of a choice when it came to football & he is forced to work with what he has. What he has is a 5yr contract. I know for a fact Dimel has crazy pressure to turn this program around yesterday or else.  After the 3rd year, we should see the writing on the wall as to what direction Senter will go. Football is the big one because costs are not justifying the means. UTEP is losing tons here. I cant say what Senter should do, because this is a mess. I can tell you, the coaches, Senter, & the Prez what I am doing. I am not participating & refuse to be cheated anymore as a season ticket holder by not buying tickets or supporting the program like I used to. I was a gold level season ticket holder of 4 tickets for 10yrs and ended it after 2017 season. I also invested in tailgates with UTEP alumni for 4. I also gave extra $$ to the Miner Athletic Club annually. Think about how much they lost off of just me & expand that number by a few thousand more fans. No bueno.
Let's talk basketball. We can see writing on the wall with this program quicker than football. I see stupid talent, but coaches & kids cant find a way to work as a unit. How long will it take? I hope we can at least see a glimpse in the CUSA tournament. I have a feeling we will come up way short even in a weak conference. I have to say I'm on the fence about this program right now. I'll have to wait until the end of the season to figure this program out. In the mean time, Senter needs to let basketball unfold and then do something about it after the season.

[kyyote]

I did look it up before I wrote it and found this, so if I am wrong I apologize but the mistake is not one I made without at least trying to be correct;

"I?m greatly looking forward to the opportunity at UTEP to build a program utilizing a 1-0 concept," Dimel said in a statement released by UTEP. "I would like to thank President (Diana) Natalicio and Jim Senter for the opportunity. We will work diligently to elevate UTEP football to the highest level in Conference USA. Having been a part of a major turnaround at Kansas State and having the success we did at Wyoming, I'm just really excited about the leadership challenge that's ahead."

Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article188436959.html#storylink=cpy

But, as for who hired and contracts, I know that people in charge have ways of getting rid of people who have contracts by making their lives a living Hell.  It happens with underperforming teachers all of the time.  The reason I say this is because I believe in my heart that Wilson not only knows that the buck stops with her, but more importantly, she damned well knows how to do something about it.  When there are millions involved, people play hardball, and a beanball is not out of the question.  Terry I believe is not a great hire.  Not even a good hire.  His record has been mediocre and that is what we have seen.  He seems best at recruiting.  He is a sports used car salesman.  But doesn't know how to run the lot.  He may prove me wrong with time, but I want a damned good businessman with excellent cars, respected in the community as honest-a winner at the helm.  So, I think he was not a great hire, not even a good hire, and damned sure not a coach worthy of stealing away from Fresno State!  But Dimel is just the drizzling shits.  There is absolutely no fucking excuse whatsoever.  Not in my book.  I will say it again, we should be able to have class and dignity AND win.  We shouldn't have to choose.  If that is the excuse for just flat out horrible results for the past two years, I refuse to accept it.  And Wilson is responsible.  It is lonely at the top.  Heads have to roll, people get the fucking axe.  Wilson just like most at the top has to have an axeman if she doesn't like the role.  So, either she or Senter has to do it, but she is where the responsibility lies.  She knows it, too.  So either she isn't doing her job, Senter is being allowed not to do his job by her, and either way it is on her.  One of them should already have found a way to drive Dimel either to win or get the fuck out.  A five year contract means nothing.  He needs to be given picking up trash on campus detail, cleaning the toilets because Senter and Wilson are on his ass day and night, whatever it takes, and again, trust me, they have ways to do this.  They have ways to make it impossible to sleep, go home, smile at your wife, or be nice to your kids.  They have ways to make people miserable enough that they go away.  Dimel should already be gone.  I do not accept the excuse that it can't be done.  I watched it be done many times.  There is someone on Dimels staff that can win games and if there isn't they all need to find work somewhere else so that someone that can win can come in.  I refuse to accept anyone saying we can't do better than 1 win a season.  That shit about no one will be willing to coach here if they get fired is bullshit.  Every year, new teachers with no experience come in a set the world on fire.  Each gets a one year contract and the ones that can't hack it go somewhere else.  Others start showing what great things they can do.  And they do it for half of what it costs to have an old worthless experienced teacher do it.  We win one game a season.  Maybe. A new coach could not possible be worse and they don't need a five year contract that has to be bought out.  I honestly don't know what they have to do, but I do know that what they are doing isn't working and you don't have to have a degree in anything to see it.  1-11 speaks for itself.  It shouts at the top of its lungs.  I don't know what the right answer is but I can spot the wrong answer when it is this wrong from a mile away and so can any one of your wives or children.  Ask any third grader if a football coach with 1 win out of 12 games should be fired and see what the answers are.  Little girls who have no idea what football is will know the right answer.  There is no excuse.  There is absolutely no excuse for it to go on for another year.

[SisyphusMiner]

What really gets me is they didn't even make Dimel fire his coordinators.

In my world, a new hire gets a keep/fire review at 6 months.
I actually last year took a job with somewhat similar circumstances as Dimel.  This part of the business was floundering and I was brought in to turn it around.  I told them the first year would just be righting the ship, and we might see small growth the 2nd year, but we should see a positive trajectory by year 3.  All along the way I consult with the president constantly about what I think we need to do different and what my plan is.  Sure enough, we basically did the same this year as last year.  But we did all the things I wanted to do to right the ship.  Now this year we are starting to see a glimmer of the future success.

My point is, I don't think I would have got hired if I told them it would take 5 years to see success, and I don't know that I would still be here if there weren't clear signs of progress already.  If I had just come in and moved chairs around my boss is smart enough to realize I'm not really achieving anything.  And if by the end of year 3 we are not clearly heading in the right direction I expect to be let go.  I don't see why coaches should expect something else.  But I would gladly take Dimel's salary for a 5 year guaranteed contract to remain the worst team in the country.


Out of curiosity does anyone know what this even means  ? -- "I?m greatly looking forward to the opportunity at UTEP to build a program utilizing a 1-0 concept

[kyyote]

Just a guess, and I wondered that too, but 1 back no back offense? 

[UTEPDefense]

I think the 1-0 mentality is just a way of saying that you are going to win every day and go 1-0 every day, whether that day is practice, weights, etc.  Here is an article from Kansas State regarding it:

https://www.kstatesports.com/news/2017/10/12/football-se-k-state-returns-to-1-0-mentality-before-hosting-no-6-tcu.aspx

[SisyphusMiner]

Ah.  Thank you.  I had never heard that before.
I was thinking he meant to say we were going to have a 1-11 mentality.

[liebestraum]

I think the 1-0 mentality is just a way of saying that you are going to win every day and go 1-0 every day, whether that day is practice, weights, etc.  Here is an article from Kansas State regarding it:

https://www.kstatesports.com/news/2017/10/12/football-se-k-state-returns-to-1-0-mentality-before-hosting-no-6-tcu.aspx

This has been the mantra of the FB coaches at my university for the past 10 years.

lieb

[liebestraum]

First, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for both to not be abysmal.  Second, this and most other message boards aren't usually discussing academics.  Third, it is a university, a part of the University of Texas system, which establishes standards and those are  verified by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, so the academic standards are expected to be high and are verified, so that isn't an issue.  So, that is like asking if you were eating shit sandwiches for lunch but the teams were winning would we be having the same discussion.  We aren't eating shit sandwiches, so the team's performances are a valid discussion and eating shit sandwiches doesn't have any part in the discussion.  So, I reject your loaded question.  I say that we should be able to do both, have high academic standards AND be able to win and discuss the athletic team's performances, especially in this thread.  If you or anyone else wants to start a thread discussing academic performances there is no reason you can't. The board is open to discussing all things UTEP and it just takes someone to start the discussion.  Because I love my school, if the academics went to shit I would be very concerned whether the team was winning or not, so I think the question might be asked simply would you be ok with a shitty school with winning teams?  My answer is of course not and that is a shitty way to call into question my priorities.  I might even be offended by it as it is a sneaky, maybe cowardly,  way of questioning my character.

I ask the question because I have come to realize how out-of-proportion sports have become in relation to the original mission of many universities.  And this is peculiar to the United States. 

As for an accrediting body such as SACS, I can tell you that they are happily turning a blind eye to the increasing trend of universities hiring cheap adjunct instructors to teach freshman-level courses.  At most universities now, incoming freshmen are not likely to encounter a professor their first couple of years.  And many universities are having fewer freshman/sophomore students enroll right out of college because of the expense - it is cheaper to get your first two years at a two-year college.  Heck, with the rise in dual-credit classes in high school, some kids graduate with 18 hours of college credit.  SACS says nothing about the fact that the state contribution to ?state? universities has been steadily decreasing over the years, causing universities to cut back on full-time professors.  So much for quality.

But, you?re right:  this is a place to talk about sports and we want to talk about our winning teams.   My question simply reflected my worry about the bigger picture of sports and universities.

lieb