Author Topic: Transfers Got You Down?  (Read 883 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

kyyote

  • Administrator
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Posts: 2377
  • Karma: +102/-10
    • View Profile
Transfers Got You Down?
« on: December 27, 2021, 11:19:27 AM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • College athletics is changing so fast we can't really tell how much yet.  Throw in covid and what it has done for two years, and it is really hard to tell what is going on.  Conferences are having to figure out how to deal with canceled games.  Bowl games are just dropped.  You have realignment throwing out rivalries playing musical chairs for television money-which now seems to be driving college athletics.  Fans in seats at the game means less than it used to.  Viewers and the sales of commercials is all that matters.

    In the past, players represented the community.  It was pride in those we called our own succeeding and yes, the commiserating with them when we all lost.  Roberto Clemente ended slavery of a sort when he broke the ownership of players playing rights.  He was free to take his skills anywhere, to the highest bidder.  About as capitalistic as it gets.  It marked the beginning of the end.  Loyalty and community were no longer the foundation of our athletic competition.  Except the schools.  Their teams were made up of our kids, playing for our schools and our communities.  And now that has been somewhat stripped away.  Or perhaps fading is more accurate.

    But we all know that the reality has always been that UTEP is a place to play football and get an education.  Miners who make it to the pros are diamonds who came out of the tailings.  So, there is the loyalty thing and there is the fairness and unfairness of the moving up and down within the cartels and now in reality a form of single A double A and so on.  I have had to deal with this for a long time, and I came to the easy decision to support the players on the football team because they are just our guys playing football.  Those who decide that their human capital is best served by moving will no longer be my concern.  I will not root for them or against them.  I won't hold it against them.  Bryson did what he did for him.  We have a kid who was a Georgetown player playing down here.  I won't hold that for him or against him.   We have to come to grips with the fact that the NCAA has opened the doors but that they swing both ways.  Water seeks its own level.  This has been happening for a long time.  Now the transfer happens quicker.  As for the fairness, it is the same as it ever was. 

    Tim Floyd was a pioneer in the use of transfers and ironically it was what drove him to retirement in somewhat of a way that almost looked like revenge.  Mike Price had many players come to play when their options had been narrowed.  These things that seem to be coming out have been around but have been speeded up.  So, you have to look at the speed factor.  Is it kind of a reversal of natural order where unlike magic speeding the process up doesn't hide the trick, it exposes it? 

    Practically, how do you build a program as has been asked.  How do you count on the work you do not being just the reward for someone else?  Perhaps that question and the answer that goes with it are just as simple as they seem.  Silly.  The work we do to make someone successful is always going to be someone else's reward.  That doesn't mean we work less.  It means we work harder.  We, each of us do it all day.  So that part has not changed.  For anyone.  One thing I may suggest is that the system is the foundation and players must fit it rather than chasing a constantly changing evolving talent collection of players to make a team.  Hell, isn't that exactly what good coaches do? 

    For the old folks.  Pick it up.  Don't fall behind.  Bitching about it is fine.  But keep the fuck up!  A bitchin soldier on the march is a good soldier.  As long as he is on the march.  Bitchin gives him something to do so he doesn't get bored.  But the march is on. You may just as well enjoy the scenery.  It is damned sure changing quickly.  I never felt the pain of a junior college losing their star freshman quarterback to UTEP.  If Cowing leaves, as it appears that he will, instead of leaving a gaping hole I think he has shown true top-notch receivers that there is a great opportunity for them at UTEP.  Keep eyes open for the transfers coming in for that.

    Dimmel has put together the system.  It is built with Miners for life as the frame.  Bells and whistles, along with other additions and subtractions will come and go.  Some will be really cool, and some will need to be scrapped.   Some may just need some adjustments.  But the basic system and machine seems to be at least a functional football team.  Be of good cheer, Miners.  The new year is about to arrive, and we have a running machine.  And the mechanic may be slower than Uncle Joe at the Shady Rest but seems to know a little and may even have a trick or two up his sleeve.

    Alaska Miner

    • Assayer
    • ***
    • Posts: 241
    • Karma: +10/-2
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #1 on: December 27, 2021, 12:09:38 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • I do love your optimism Ky. I?m hoping it?s contagious, but I?m just feeling really low about the thought of so easily losing our best talents on football and basketball. Hopefully, it?ll work out like you say, but I?m just pissed right now.
    Let's go Brandon!

    kyyote

    • Administrator
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 2377
    • Karma: +102/-10
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #2 on: December 27, 2021, 12:32:40 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • I have been insane about it in the past and threatened that I would never support a damned minor league team. But look at the ninety-nine percent of our athletes. They are Miners. In lots of fields. Stars in their fields of endeavor. Keep in mind that most of our best players usually need some time to develop and their Senior year will be their best. Some that filter down our way early may flat out come to bloom a little late but with us. I am an optimist.

    kyyote

    • Administrator
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 2377
    • Karma: +102/-10
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #3 on: December 28, 2021, 04:42:24 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • EL PASO ? UTEP Head Coach Dana Dimel announced Eight student-athletes who signed National Letters of Intent and will don the Orange and Blue of the Miners.
     
    Coming to El Paso are seven junior college transfers and one true freshman. The newest Miners include six defensive players (three defensive backs, two defensive linemen, one linebacker) and a pair of offensive players (one tight end, one offensive lineman).
     
    Joining the program, beginning in the 2022 season, are S Josiah Allen (Sacramento City College), S Dauson Booker (Modesto JC), S Kobe Hylton (Louisiana), OL Sedrick Luke (American lRiver College), LB Darryl Miner (Tyler JC), TE Luke Seib (Blue Springs South HS), DE Bryton Thompson (Blinn College), and DL Maurice (Mo) Westmoreland (Kilgore College).


    I posted this because I think it shows exactly how much we are involved in our own way. The transfer portal is like Chutes and Ladders. There are players moving up and down all of the time. I think the quarterback from Houston was at his fifth school. It works both ways. Some highly recruited players would rather play at pickaschool at a lower level than hope for a chance. We just have to become good enough that good players needing a different team feel like UTEP is a good team. If and when that happens good players flock like birds of a feather.

    Also, Bryson Williams rolled the dice and moved up to the Big12 and Texas Tech.  I believe they are 25th ranked.  Here are his stats for this year and the two previous years;

    GP   MIN   FG%   3P%   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
    11   20.9   54.2   45.0   73.7   4.6   0.9   0.5   0.2   2.5   1.0   11.5
    24   31.4   48.1   27.9   83.6   7.4   0.9   0.5   0.6   2.7   1.8   15.1
    32   31.8   49.9   35.6   81.1   7.2   0.9   0.9   0.9   2.8   2.2   17.8

    Everything is down but he is doing it in the Big12.  He will dance this year.
    « Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 05:08:38 PM by kyyote »

    Chanson

    • 2016 Official Prediction Thread Champion-Basketball
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 1610
    • Karma: +53/-11
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #4 on: December 28, 2021, 05:38:16 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • I was hoping to see some QBs transfering in. I guess they are putting all their eggs in 1 basket with Hardison.
    IMO, the kid needs to work watching film from now to next Fall.
    Reading defenses is his big issue. Kid has too many turn overs & our defense has been picking up his pieces all year.
      "He who has nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature & has no chance of being free unless kept so by better men than himself.

    SisyphusMiner

    • 2013 Official Prediction Thread Champion 2013
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 1985
    • Karma: +93/-8
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #5 on: December 29, 2021, 08:07:23 AM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • I was hoping to see some QBs transfering in. I guess they are putting all their eggs in 1 basket with Hardison.
    IMO, the kid needs to work watching film from now to next Fall.
    Reading defenses is his big issue. Kid has too many turn overs & our defense has been picking up his pieces all year.

    I would expand from reading defenses to "field vision".  He doesn't capture the field, he just locks onto a receiver.  He doesn't see defenders closing and he doesn't see other open receivers.  The INT he threw in the bowl he had a wide open TE inside the 10 as an example. Second is accuracy / touch.  Every pass is a bullet and a lot of them require a really good receiver to adjust to wherever the ball is going.  How often does he hit a receiver in stride, even on a simple slant or crossing?

    Much like the question Kyy keeps asking about why can't we find guys that can put a round ball in a hoop, I want to know why we can't find a QB that can get the ball to a receiver unless he's one of the best in the country?

    kyyote

    • Administrator
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 2377
    • Karma: +102/-10
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #6 on: December 29, 2021, 08:55:12 AM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • Therre are around 25 NFL team fans asking the same question.  lol Almost all of them have quarterbacks who were better than sliced bread.

    Btw, I found a couple of quarterbacks listed.  One of them was offered but so did a bunch of schools and we aren't going to be his choice.  The other one had no offers, no interest except for two teams, both have offered.  NMSU and UTEP.
    « Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 09:02:07 AM by kyyote »

    SisyphusMiner

    • 2013 Official Prediction Thread Champion 2013
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 1985
    • Karma: +93/-8
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #7 on: December 29, 2021, 11:43:52 AM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • Obviously at each level it gets more difficult to translate those skills to a faster opposition.

    Thinking more generically about transfers and the rules applying to them, a lot comes down to your goals.  I think the players view unlimited transfers as most desirable to their goals, whether it's more playing time, more visibility, etc.  I think the P5 schools view it as a great way to build dynasties.  It's a very mixed bag for G5 schools.

    If your goal was parity across the country, you would do some things differently.  But the goal right now is for the rich to get richer and the rest can eat cake.

    If everyone that wasn't P5 pulled out of the NCAA and formed a new league, I would have parity as my goal.  The more you make it possible for a team no one has ever heard of to win it all, the more exciting it is for the casual fan -- whether tourney or football championship. 


    Minermojo

    • 2014 2015 and 2018 Official Prediction Thread Champion-Football and 2018 OPT Champ Basketball and 2018 PreSeason Prediction Challenge Champion
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 1615
    • Karma: +39/-25
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #8 on: December 30, 2021, 12:27:57 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • Obviously at each level it gets more difficult to translate those skills to a faster opposition.

    Thinking more generically about transfers and the rules applying to them, a lot comes down to your goals.  I think the players view unlimited transfers as most desirable to their goals, whether it's more playing time, more visibility, etc.  I think the P5 schools view it as a great way to build dynasties.  It's a very mixed bag for G5 schools.

    If your goal was parity across the country, you would do some things differently.  But the goal right now is for the rich to get richer and the rest can eat cake.

    If everyone that wasn't P5 pulled out of the NCAA and formed a new league, I would have parity as my goal.  The more you make it possible for a team no one has ever heard of to win it all, the more exciting it is for the casual fan -- whether tourney or football championship.

    I think going off and forming a new organization wouldn't accomplish much solely because as in politics the Mass Media is what drives everything. If, let's the G5 did skedaddled from the Ncaa would the sports channels view the new organization any different than they are now or would the status quo remain? Mass media we know already has the pull already because we talk about how Espin makes the decisions for the Ncaa because they are the ones shelling out a lot of money. Unfortunately, the Ncaa is the whipping boy of Espin and they do their bidding.


    SisyphusMiner

    • 2013 Official Prediction Thread Champion 2013
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 1985
    • Karma: +93/-8
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #9 on: December 30, 2021, 01:05:14 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • Yes and no.  NCAA has the product, ESPN has the money.  You don't have to sell the product to the devil if you don't want to. But no one has the integrity to do the right thing if there is money to be made doing the wrong thing.  And the ultimate example is Washington DC.

    SisyphusMiner

    • 2013 Official Prediction Thread Champion 2013
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 1985
    • Karma: +93/-8
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #10 on: January 10, 2022, 02:14:36 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • Obviously this won't happen but what if you made P5 schools pay the G5 school for taking any of their players via portal? If they want your guy bad enough, they can afford to pay you for it.

    G5 schools would not need to pay for anyone transferring in.

    If they are going to treat us as their farm teams, they can at least compensate us for spending the money recruiting and developing a player.

    liebestraum

    • 2017 Preseason Prediction Pick Challenge Champion
    • Explosives Engineer
    • ****
    • Posts: 405
    • Karma: +29/-3
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #11 on: January 10, 2022, 03:38:36 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • Obviously this won't happen but what if you made P5 schools pay the G5 school for taking any of their players via portal? If they want your guy bad enough, they can afford to pay you for it.

    G5 schools would not need to pay for anyone transferring in.

    If they are going to treat us as their farm teams, they can at least compensate us for spending the money recruiting and developing a player.

    Also not going to happen:  make the NFL pay colleges for acting as a farm system.

    lieb

    kyyote

    • Administrator
    • Sourdough
    • *****
    • Posts: 2377
    • Karma: +102/-10
      • View Profile
    Re: Transfers Got You Down?
    « Reply #12 on: January 10, 2022, 04:59:14 PM »
  • [applaud]0
  • [smite]0
  • We didn't have to pay Ou for JB, or Georgetown for Sibley.  Nor did we have to pay UCLA for Greg Foster all of those years ago.

    One thing I think we may have learned is that winning attracts winners.  Baylor wins the NC and the next year they are number 1 with 7 new players.  By the way, one of the new stars is a player from Abilene Christian.  Three seasons ago (?) Texas Tech in in the NC game.  Their coach leaves this year to go coach UT.  An assistant coach takes over, gets 8 new players and is ranked in the Top 25.  One of the new players he got was Bryson Williams and another one of his new stars is also from Abilene Christian.   The entire NCAA has turned into a game of Chutes and Ladders and with 5 to get 4 and sitting out a year for transfers, the development part is the mixing and matching that can be done.  But and I am not sure on this part, I think grades are still a requirement, so there are some players getting good grades and practicing.  Transfers, up and down, grades, conference realignments, the ronas, and the overall general social climate have made things crazy.