buyout

[SisyphusMiner]

I found that in 2019 Terry was the 58th highest paid coach in the country, and tied for highest in the conference.  I think he would cost $1.5M to buy out right now

Dimel is 98th in the country, and gets slightly more than La TEch or USM coach.  I think he also would cost about $1.5M. 


If you were UTEP and could buy out only one of the two, which would it be?

Considerations:

Basketball is the pride of UTEP.
30,000 butts in a football stadium pays a lot of bills.
Which program will be more damaged if allowed to continue for 2 more years?
Which program can rebuild faster?
What is the current trajectory of each program?

[kyyote]

Let?s get the discussion going in context. The NCAA landscape is changing so quickly that it is a blur. COVID has made it worse and yet like some preach, never let someone?s pandemic go to waste when you can use it to cover up a murder. The big boys are all in on that kind of thinking. The is the NFL the pros and then there are what are becoming the minor leagues. The power conferences are triple A, the AAC and MWC are double A, and the rest are single A leagues. The players are now called up and sent down. For basketball the one and dones have even made it impossible for even the traditional power teams to find any continuity. So within the changes to the whole system in the immediate future I see the pros succeeding in football, the NBA continuing to move and flourish as the CNBA until that stops. Fan support at the Triple A level may continue for a little while but the AA and A leagues will become dependent upon government supplements to fund teams that are politically correct that no one will support.
So, Dimmel will lose. Seats empty. Basketball flounders but the constant shuffle of players will continue to erode the fan base, All Old Folks both in fab and bb. Doom and gloom. But on a lighter note, I think it will be the least of our worries the next few years.

[Chanson]

Good post, Sis.

I think it's best to buy out Dimel & get a coach that can bring money back in filling the stands. Use that $ to buy out Terry.

[SisyphusMiner]

NDSU head football coach makes around $400k.  He is 17-0.  They had the #2 offense and #2 defense in FCS.  They most likely would have kicked our butt.

[kyyote]

I found that in 2019 Terry was the 58th highest paid coach in the country, and tied for highest in the conference.  I think he would cost $1.5M to buy out right now

Dimel is 98th in the country, and gets slightly more than La TEch or USM coach.  I think he also would cost about $1.5M. 


If you were UTEP and could buy out only one of the two, which would it be?

Considerations:

Basketball is the pride of UTEP.
30,000 butts in a football stadium pays a lot of bills.
Which program will be more damaged if allowed to continue for 2 more years?
Which program can rebuild faster?
What is the current trajectory of each program?

That 58th ranking should put his pay either in the power conference or at least higher range of mid majors. Right?  Are we getting the results one should expect for the money?  I know. You have to trust the process. .
The Dimel ranking seems in line if not a little optimistic.

I really do wonder about Terry though after last night. Basket is always the easiest to build but it doesn?t bring the rewards that football brings.

[Minermojo]

NDSU head football coach makes around $400k.  He is 17-0.  They had the #2 offense and #2 defense in FCS.  They most likely would have kicked our butt.

Yep, we know that but the ones that do the hiring don't and if they do they are stupid to not even consider him. I've long been an advocate of bringing in coaches from winning FCS programs. A few years back when Dim's name was being thrown around as a replacement for Kug It I was pushing for Liebs school coach. He had a winning record but noooooo they go for a has been thinking and hoping that he can be resurrected and in turn resurrect a lousy fb team. Now, they got what everyone knows is a failure of a coach.

Some people NEVER learn.

[liebestraum]

I think looking at FCS coaches is still a mixed bag.  Recall that UTEP did hire Scott Stoker from SHSU as DC at one point.  When he was DC at Sam he was able to routinely shut down FCS offenses; that was not really the case when he moved to UTEP. 

On the offensive side, SHSU had an OC get hired by Mississippi at one point.  While the guy was at Sam, the Kats had one of the top offenses in the FCS.   He was a dud at Ole Miss.

Willie Fritz moved form SHSU to Georgia Southern when they moved up to FBS and did well, then got hired away by Tulane and he has had decent success there (i.e., bowl games).  Fritz was replaced by KC Keeler (who won a national championship while at Delaware and coached Joe Flacco), he has done very well at Sam but I have never gotten the impression he is looking to move up.

It also seems to me that many of the successful FCS coaches enjoy working at that level and are not always obvious candidates to move up to FBS.  North Dakota State has been insanely dominant over the last 10 years, but their HCs have not set the world on fire when they have left.

In an ideal world, an OC from a Power Five school would be great for UTEP, but the current reality is UTEP is (literally) a recruiting desert and I am not certain UTEP can ever again recruit top FB talent.  Good coaching can only take us so far.  On this, I am definitely willing to be proven wrong.

lieb

[kyyote]

This is an interesting subject. Can success can be purchased?  Pay Urban enough to coach at UTEP could he win?  If yes could he start winning immediately?  But then there?s UT with all the money they need and can?t just buy wins. Can we even say you get what you pay for?  I think that there are no guarantees and nothing above is hard and fast but perhaps we can say that your best chance is to go with you get what you pay for.
As for Dimmel it depends on what you bought. He sold a process, a plan to build a program. So our people decided that winning immediately wasn?t necessary or expected. After the time he has had even with last year being an outlier it was for all so looking at ?building a program?. I personally question building a program on failure. I have always believed that if I could get a student on the honor roll he would fight like Hell to stay there. But we have chosen what we are hoping will pay off in the future. Can we measure the progress?  Is it grades? Attendance?  How would grinning Dana tell us how much progress has been made in building the program?  By the way, should we really have to ask? 

[zyxwvutsru]

Fuck 'em and feed 'em fish.

[SisyphusMiner]

You get what you pay for is only true if you understand the market and you understand the product you are purchasing.  If I go out and buy a yacht tomorrow I am probably going to pay a lot more than it is worth because I don't know any better.  If I go out and hire a car sales manager, I may hire a dud because I don't know how to evaluate a car sales manager.


My theory is just this:  Winners win.  Losers lose.

I would rather not hire a coordinator from P5 that has been a head coach and was mediocre and found his way back into coordinator job.  That tells me he has found his level of competence.  Instead I would prefer someone that has either been a head coach and won consistently.  My 2nd choice is an up and coming coordinator that has not yet proven to fail as HC.

Going back to my car salesman.  If I hire a guy that was a sales manager in a smaller market and he kicked butt and wants to move up, I know he knows something.  The question is can he translate it to a bigger market?

If I hire a guy that was a good salesman in a big market but has never been sales manager, I don't know whether or not he can handle the manager job. 

If I hire a guy that was a sales manager before and his numbers sucked so he went back to being just a sales guy, I know something else.  I know he has a record of failing at the position I am looking to hire him for.  I feel pretty confident the guy that got fired from being a sales manager isn't going to miraculously be better this time.

Not everyone is going to work out, we all know that.  But logic says you don't hire the guy that has already failed before.

[kyyote]

I think we just might be getting somewhere.