Terry Terrible, Dimel Dumbass, Senter Stupid, and Wilson Castaway

[kyyote]

A recent topic was asking if the basketball team was over rated or underperforming. Let's ask the same question about Rodney Terry.

From Wikipedia here is some information about Terry.

"... played college basketball at St. Edward's University in Austin. Terry graduated from St. Edward's in 1990 with a bachelor's degree in business administration with a minor in physical education."
"... In his two seasons at Somerville (1993 to 1995), Terry went 49/21 and led Somerville to the Class 2A semifinals in 1994. Terry returned to Angleton High School to be head coach in the 1995/96 season, during which he had a 15/13 record for a cumulative 64/34..."
"...Terry joined Texas as an assistant coach under Rick Barnes. At Texas, Terry helped recruit McDonald's All-American players like Kevin Durant, D. J. Augustin, and Tristan Thompson."
"Terry replaced Steve Cleveland as head coach at Fresno State on April 7, 2011. Fresno State went 13/20 (3/11 Western Athletic Conference) in Terry's first season in 2011/2. The following season in 2012/13, Fresno State moved to the Mountain West Conference (MW) and went 11/19."
"Fresno State went 21/18 and made the College Basketball Invitational (CBI) in 2013/14 for the program's first 20-win season and postseason appearance since the 2006/07 season. Despite a 1/7 start, Fresno State finished 9/9 in MW play, an unprecedented finish in conference history.  Fresno State lost the CBI in three games to Siena.
"Despite a 15/17 record in 2014/15, Fresno State improved to 10/8 in MW play..."
"Terry led Fresno State to a 25/10 record, MW Tournament title, and NCAA Tournament auto-bid in the 2015/16 season."
"2016/17 Fresno State 20/13 11/7 4th NIT First Round
2017/18 Fresno State 21/11 11/7 T/4th
Fresno State: 126/108 (.538) 62/58 (.517)
UTEP 2018/19 8/21 3/15 14th
UTEP: 17-24 (.415) 3/15 (.167)
Total: 143/132 (.520)

Looking at his record, I don't think we can say he is over rated or under performing.  He is performing almost exactly as anyone would think.  He wins about half of his games by padding his win column against weak teams from lower level conferences and then has a very poor record against normal teams.  Fresno State, yep, Fresno State had had enough of that and fired him.  UTEP out of all of the basketball coaches in the United States decided he was a real good get.  His record at UTEP is a perfect reflection of his coaching career.
So, the only question left is will UTEP be willing to put up with what Fresno State would not tolerate and for how long.  UTEP.  Senter.  A five year contract given to a football coach who has racked up a 1 1/2 win and 22 loss record and I don't know how many years he has signed us up for a basketball coach with a career record of winning some games against glorified high school teams and then getting drubbed by normal college level teams.  How long does Senter's contract run?  And then there is our new, not so new any longer, President.  She supposedly recognizes the importance of the athletic programs as representative of the university and I ask all of you if you have heard anything from her about what is happening?  While we talk about our latest win or more likely, loss, the big picture is a masterpiece on canvass painted with diarrhea and displayed for the rest of the United States to see as UTEP.  The University of Texas at El Paso deserves better.  The students and the people of El Paso deserve better.  I have to wonder if the people in positions of leadership, people not from El Paso, with no ties to El Paso or UTEP think that this is ok for UTEP and El Paso.  I also have to wonder if and when the people of UTEP and El Paso will tell these same people that this is unacceptable.  We are a very kind and polite people, here in perhaps the friendliest city in the United States.  Our football program has programmed us to accept bad football forever.  But, when will this shit be enough.  These people should not be allowed out of their homes without hearing loudly and with anger about how their performance just doesn't cut it.  They should beasked if they would like an ass kicking and are they willing to stand there and take it with class and dignity.  The freaking recent President of the Air Force Academy should be asked if it would be tolerable for the United States Air Force to be getting its ass kicked and would it be ok and would it take it with class and dignity? 

Enough.  Coaches at bars for a lovely radio show!  They should be ashamed to show their face in public!  Senter?  Where the fuck is he?  Hiding under his desk?  Making stupid comments about class and dignity?  How classy is the UTEP football program under his leadership?  Where is the dignity in being responsible for a 2 and 22 team?  How dignified do teams think we are?  Classy?  What does that mean, we have sharp creases on our uniforms?  Athletic teams are measured by wins and losses.  These yahoos out to have a TV program called "The Classiest Losers" with their faces plastered all over it!  Their faces should be on billboards all over town and see how classy and dignified they think that is.

The billboards ought to show their faces with shit eating grins on them cashing their checks with the football team and basketball team's record along side of it saying "CLASSY" and "DIGNIFIED".  Then see how classy and dignified they think this shit is!
 

[SisyphusMiner]

Wow, this is really revealing.  I'm not convinced that integrity = mediocrity, but that sure seems to have been the operative mindset under Natalicio.  Wilson did not hire Senter, and Terry and Dimel were also hired before she took office.

Only quibble I have with your post is that I do not have any expectation that Wilson will say anything negative publicly.  IF anything is being said, and it may well not be, it is happening behind closed doors.  My expectation, just from her history is that she is your basic administrator / politician.  She will tell Senter she wants metrics for success for him and his two major hires, and see what happens.

I doubt she knows much about coaches, but I'll bet she has financial goals.  And I bet they can't meet them without winning some games.

My worry is who does she have to advise her other than Senter?  I'm sure he can BS about the W/L record for the 5 years of everyone's contracts.  If she doesn't have some independent voices she trusts, the only way anything happens if if he fails to meet financial goals and she doesn't buy the BS on that.

It would be pretty easy to BS about significant improvement in basketball to someone that doesn't know the game and just looks at the record.  Football is a lot harder case to make.  End of next year will tell how she is going to respond.  I bet no one gets fired for mediocrity.  4 wins in football and 16-20 wins in basketball keeps everyone their job, I bet.  If football goes down like I expect with 0-2 wins and Dimel not fired then not only is mediocrity OK but downright suckiness is.

But regardless I don't think we will not hear anything but rainbows, unicorns, sunshine, and daffodils from her, even if she is chewing someones ass behind the scenes.

[ATL-Miner]

Agree with a lot of your points and share the frustration, but Terry was not fired from Fresno St.

A recent topic was asking if the basketball team was over rated or underperforming. Let's ask the same question about Rodney Terry.

From Wikipedia here is some information about Terry.

"... played college basketball at St. Edward's University in Austin. Terry graduated from St. Edward's in 1990 with a bachelor's degree in business administration with a minor in physical education."
"... In his two seasons at Somerville (1993 to 1995), Terry went 49/21 and led Somerville to the Class 2A semifinals in 1994. Terry returned to Angleton High School to be head coach in the 1995/96 season, during which he had a 15/13 record for a cumulative 64/34..."
"...Terry joined Texas as an assistant coach under Rick Barnes. At Texas, Terry helped recruit McDonald's All-American players like Kevin Durant, D. J. Augustin, and Tristan Thompson."
"Terry replaced Steve Cleveland as head coach at Fresno State on April 7, 2011. Fresno State went 13/20 (3/11 Western Athletic Conference) in Terry's first season in 2011/2. The following season in 2012/13, Fresno State moved to the Mountain West Conference (MW) and went 11/19."
"Fresno State went 21/18 and made the College Basketball Invitational (CBI) in 2013/14 for the program's first 20-win season and postseason appearance since the 2006/07 season. Despite a 1/7 start, Fresno State finished 9/9 in MW play, an unprecedented finish in conference history.  Fresno State lost the CBI in three games to Siena.
"Despite a 15/17 record in 2014/15, Fresno State improved to 10/8 in MW play..."
"Terry led Fresno State to a 25/10 record, MW Tournament title, and NCAA Tournament auto-bid in the 2015/16 season."
"2016/17 Fresno State 20/13 11/7 4th NIT First Round
2017/18 Fresno State 21/11 11/7 T/4th
Fresno State: 126/108 (.538) 62/58 (.517)
UTEP 2018/19 8/21 3/15 14th
UTEP: 17-24 (.415) 3/15 (.167)
Total: 143/132 (.520)

Looking at his record, I don't think we can say he is over rated or under performing.  He is performing almost exactly as anyone would think.  He wins about half of his games by padding his win column against weak teams from lower level conferences and then has a very poor record against normal teams.  Fresno State, yep, Fresno State had had enough of that and fired him.  UTEP out of all of the basketball coaches in the United States decided he was a real good get.  His record at UTEP is a perfect reflection of his coaching career.
So, the only question left is will UTEP be willing to put up with what Fresno State would not tolerate and for how long.  UTEP.  Senter.  A five year contract given to a football coach who has racked up a 1 1/2 win and 22 loss record and I don't know how many years he has signed us up for a basketball coach with a career record of winning some games against glorified high school teams and then getting drubbed by normal college level teams.  How long does Senter's contract run?  And then there is our new, not so new any longer, President.  She supposedly recognizes the importance of the athletic programs as representative of the university and I ask all of you if you have heard anything from her about what is happening?  While we talk about our latest win or more likely, loss, the big picture is a masterpiece on canvass painted with diarrhea and displayed for the rest of the United States to see as UTEP.  The University of Texas at El Paso deserves better.  The students and the people of El Paso deserve better.  I have to wonder if the people in positions of leadership, people not from El Paso, with no ties to El Paso or UTEP think that this is ok for UTEP and El Paso.  I also have to wonder if and when the people of UTEP and El Paso will tell these same people that this is unacceptable.  We are a very kind and polite people, here in perhaps the friendliest city in the United States.  Our football program has programmed us to accept bad football forever.  But, when will this shit be enough.  These people should not be allowed out of their homes without hearing loudly and with anger about how their performance just doesn't cut it.  They should beasked if they would like an ass kicking and are they willing to stand there and take it with class and dignity.  The freaking recent President of the Air Force Academy should be asked if it would be tolerable for the United States Air Force to be getting its ass kicked and would it be ok and would it take it with class and dignity? 

Enough.  Coaches at bars for a lovely radio show!  They should be ashamed to show their face in public!  Senter?  Where the fuck is he?  Hiding under his desk?  Making stupid comments about class and dignity?  How classy is the UTEP football program under his leadership?  Where is the dignity in being responsible for a 2 and 22 team?  How dignified do teams think we are?  Classy?  What does that mean, we have sharp creases on our uniforms?  Athletic teams are measured by wins and losses.  These yahoos out to have a TV program called "The Classiest Losers" with their faces plastered all over it!  Their faces should be on billboards all over town and see how classy and dignified they think that is.

The billboards ought to show their faces with shit eating grins on them cashing their checks with the football team and basketball team's record along side of it saying "CLASSY" and "DIGNIFIED".  Then see how classy and dignified they think this shit is!
 

[kyyote]

" Following a three-year extension and nearly $50,000 annual raise in January 2016, Fresno State extended Terry through the 2020?21 season in December 2016."

Sorry about being wrong on him being fired.  But, then are you telling me that UTEP stole him away from Fresno State?!  That would be even worse!  Holy Hell!  We are the car thief that stole a Yugo!  Genius move!  What a steal that was.  Seriously, I am sorry about saying he was fired.  The fact that we stole him away from Fresno State makes it ten times worse!  Genius move!  I will leave my mistake up there and own it here.  Thank you for correcting me and the record.

Sis, from this, I am going to conclude that she is a pilot and was a commander in the U.S. Air Force.

"The United States Air Force Academy began admitting women during Wilson's junior year at Keene High School (Keene, New Hampshire). She applied and was appointed to the Academy.[1] At the Academy, she was the first woman to command basic training and the first woman Vice Wing Commander.[16] She graduated in 1982 as a Distinguished Graduate (magna cum laude equivalent).[17][18] Wilson earned a Rhodes Scholarship to study at the University of Oxford and continued her education at Jesus College, earning an M.Phil. and D.Phil. in international relations by 1985.[17]
In 1990, Oxford University Press published her book, International Law and the Use of Force by National Liberation Movements,[19] which won the 1988 Paul Reuter Prize of the International Committee of the Red Cross.[20] The Paul Reuter Prize is awarded for a major work in the sphere of international humanitarian law. Wilson won the second Reuter prize ever awarded.[21]
An Air Force officer for seven years, Wilson was a negotiator and political adviser to the U.S. Air Force in the United Kingdom, and a defense planning officer for NATO in Belgium, where her work included arms control negotiations."

As a commanding officer, she knows that the buck stops with her.  In my battalion, my commanding officer was responsible for what went on in his battalion.  He didn't have any excuses.  He may not have brought in the company commanders, they may have come in before he got there, but they were his responsibility.  She is responsible for the football team, the basketball team, their coaches and the athletic director.  And she knows it.  She is military trained.  She isn't trained in the business ranks where weaseldom may be permitted.  She knows exactly who is to blame or whole takes credit.  That would be her.  No excuses.  She has sat idly by for two years and watched.  If her command was getting shot out of the sky, she wouldn't dare to say she didn't hire the pilots.  This is her job.  She leads not makes excuses.  It is her command that is being decimated. She knows it and I know it.  I guarantee you that if I asked her if she would allow a commander to lose half of his pilots and aircraft if she told me she wasn't responsible for them because she had only been there for two years... well she wouldn't.  She knows better.  I know better.  If she mentioned someone else's name, she and I would know she was unfit for command.  A commander is responsible for their command on day one.  If it was shitty, it had better show improvement that day.  Time had better show improvement.  Measurable improvement!  Or heads should roll.  No one should be smiling with a 2 and 22 record under her command. 

[SisyphusMiner]

She is a licensed pilot.  I haven't seen anything to confirm she actually flew in the Air Force.  In fact looks to me like she went straight through to PhD and immediately became a pencil pusher.

EDUCATION
1982 Bachelor of Science, U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, Colo.
1984 Master of Philosophy, International Relations, Oxford University, England
1985 Doctorate of Philosophy, International Relations, Oxford University, England
CAREER CHRONOLOGY
1985 - 1987, Plans and Negotiations, Headquarters, 3rd Air Force, RAF Mildenhall, England
1987 - 1989, Office of Defense Plans, U.S. Mission to NATO, Brussels, Belgium
1989 - 1991, Director, Defense Policy and Arms Control, NSC Staff, Washington, D.C.
1991 - 1995, President, Keystone International, Inc., Albuquerque, N.M.
1995 - 1998, Secretary, New Mexico Children, Youth and Families Department, Santa Fe, N.M.
1998 - 2009, Member of Congress, First District, New Mexico, Washington, D.C.
2009 - 2013, President, Heather Wilson & Company, LLC, Albuquerque, N.M.
2011 - 2012, Candidate, U.S. Senate, N.M.
2013 - 2017, President, South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, Rapid City, S.D.
2017 - 2019, Secretary of the Air Force, Arlington, Va.

 Has anyone heard anything that would suggest she has the sort of attitude Kyyote is suggesting at UTEP, or to her is this just a sinecure?  A nice quiet quasi-retirement where not much is expected in the sleepy border town?  She could have gotten a job as the CEO of many corporations, but that's a much more stressful environment where success and failure is very easy to measure.

I guarantee she has the contacts to get LOTS of NSF and DARPA grants at UTEP.  Does she care about sports success, or is it OK as long as all quiet and no scandals?

I'm not saying I know one way or the other but I think it's plausible, and next year will tell the tale.  I think we win 2 or fewer games, and Dimel better be fired.  If Terry's program goes backwards, he'd better be fired.  I don't know how I'd feel about 4 wins in football.  It is an awful schedule.

[Minermojo]

Personally, I haven't seen any improvement in either sport so I'm just not listening or (especially this) going to any games. I'll tune in at night and watch the sports part of the news so that I can see if we won or lost. I used to be an uber fan but I gave up when my wife got ill and because of how we've been cheated by the UTEP administration and their coaches. It's frustrating.

[kyyote]

Sis, although the Air Force , and especially the Academy have their own very different names and responsibilities ALL cadets are selected on leadership criteria and that leadership is developed.  I don't know that she ever flew or commanded a whatever the AF calls a group of pilots, but I guarantee you that she understands "chain of command" and leadership and leadership responsibilities.  As a cadet, those are pounded into them from day one.  It is the key to military discipline, honor, and a favorite of hers, I would assume, integrity.  I got my first lesson on this in a matter of maybe two hours in Army basic training.  I was a private.  As a cadet destined to be an officer,I am absolutely sure she was well trained in these areas.  She may never have piloted a military airplane or commanded pilots but she would damned sure understand my questions and be able to know what the answers should be.  Leadership, responsibility, and chain of command are at the very core of the military.  Nearly everything else comes after that.

I really don't want her to say anything publicly.  Talk is cheap.  Heads should have rolled, changes should have been made, and without a public word being said, things should have gotten visibly better.  It hasn't.  And thank you for forcing me to expand my vocabulary and knowledge of the damned Air Force.  lol Try to find out the difference between a Vice Wing Commander led me to a discussion of the difference between a Vice Wing Commander and a Deputy Wing Commander in which knowledgeable people were having Hell trying to explain it.  My head was spinning.

[kyyote]

Wilson President, South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, Rapid City from 2013-2017

Football

2010  7-3
2011 1-10
2012 2-9
2013 6-4
2014 2-9
2015 6-5
2016 5-6
2017 5-7

Basketball

2010  19-12  9-5
2011  16-14
2012  17-5
2013  6-20
2014  9-17
2015  10-16  8-14
2016  12-16   8-14
2017  8-19   5-17

It seems to me that she could give a rat's ass about athletics.  It seems to me that we are going absolutely nowhere under her leadership.  So for any of us who are hoping for improvement, you might just as well throw quarters in a fountain.  I must say that I am kind of glad I won't be running into her, because I would ask her the questions I asked above and just get nasty with her answers!

[SisyphusMiner]

However I do think the academic prestige of the school will grow

[kyyote]

I don't disagree, but like I say about class and dignity, can't we win with class and dignity.  Do our athletic programs have to lose for our academic prestige have to grow?  I believe we should do both and even more than that, I think they can do it while moving ahead hand in hand each supporting and enhancing the other, each shining a light on the other's successes.

[SisyphusMiner]

No.  We are UTEP.  Sigh.

[kyyote]

You always are very perceptive.  Damnit!

[liebestraum]

Loaded question:  If UTEP?s FB and BB teams were routinely cranking out 8 wins/25 wins per season but its academics were abysmal, would you be having a similar conversation?

lieb

[kyyote]

First, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for both to not be abysmal.  Second, this and most other message boards aren't usually discussing academics.  Third, it is a university, a part of the University of Texas system, which establishes standards and those are  verified by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, so the academic standards are expected to be high and are verified, so that isn't an issue.  So, that is like asking if you were eating shit sandwiches for lunch but the teams were winning would we be having the same discussion.  We aren't eating shit sandwiches, so the team's performances are a valid discussion and eating shit sandwiches doesn't have any part in the discussion.  So, I reject your loaded question.  I say that we should be able to do both, have high academic standards AND be able to win and discuss the athletic team's performances, especially in this thread.  If you or anyone else wants to start a thread discussing academic performances there is no reason you can't. The board is open to discussing all things UTEP and it just takes someone to start the discussion.  Because I love my school, if the academics went to shit I would be very concerned whether the team was winning or not, so I think the question might be asked simply would you be ok with a shitty school with winning teams?  My answer is of course not and that is a shitty way to call into question my priorities.  I might even be offended by it as it is a sneaky, maybe cowardly,  way of questioning my character. 

[SisyphusMiner]

Different schools have different academic missions.  UTEP is unique in that they are non-competitive entry and yet Tier 1 research. That's an identity, and one to be proud of, driven by a vision of a singularly focused president.

Different schools also have different athletic outlooks.  Some just don't give a crap and are only focused on their academic prowess.  Others use their athletics as the face of the university.  Some are so obsessed with winning that they toss aside any kind of standards or ethics at all.  For some, their identity is almost entirely their sports program  Most achieve some kind of reasonable balance.

Historically, we identified ourselves as an OK school academically, but with a rich history in basketball and track.  UTEP was my fallback school academically, when I couldn't get the funds together for the substantially more prestigious engineering school I was accepted to.  I don't regret it at all, that's just how UTEP was viewed at the time.  I don't live in EP anymore but I would assume that perspective has to be changing.  UTEP's academics are now something to be proud of.

But damn the athletics suck.  Due to the way the NCAA is now doing everything to favor the big dogs I have no expectations of national championships.  But it would sure be nice to be in the top half of god-awful CUSA in football and top 2-3 in basketball on a yearly basis.  Maybe athletics doesn't need to be the face of the school but this horrible suckiness is like putting a sewage treatment facility on the front lawn of the capitol building in Austin.  Is this what we want casual tourists to see?