offensive rebounds

[SisyphusMiner]

Some years ago the NBA decided that the potential gain by getting offensive rebounds was outweighed by the risk of getting beat on a fast break, so they stopped crashing the boards, and basically decided to drop 3-4 back as soon as a shot went up.  If the center accidentally gets the rebound, OK.

A lot of coaches in the NCAA have adopted this as well, and evidence would suggest that Terry is one of them.  I disagree, and will explain why in a second.  But for what it's worth, Creighton and Butler are in the bottom 50 in this category, but at least 8 of the top 25 teams are in the top 50 in offensive rebounds.  We are #300.  Terry appears to me to be trying to run the same offense and defense as Texas Tech who is middle of the pack.  Only Tech has better athletes and a much superior coach.

Assuming that something that works in the NBA will work in college or high school is stupid.  The athletes just aren't as good.  There are a lot more offensive rebounds available to be grabbed in college than NBA for starters, which changes the calculations.  Second, people are doing studies on the theory and coming to the conclusion that statistically it may not even be correct in the NBA but looks less and less correct as you go down to college and high school.

No team should ever get a successful fast break against you if you make the shot whether on the initial shot or a putback after an offensive rebound.  Second, even for a team as bad as us, we have a much higher pct on the 3 on a 2nd chance where we get the board and kick it back out.  Third, if you are rebounding, you force your opponent to work harder for the rebound.  He can't drop more guys out for the break than you are crashing the boards with or you'll kill him with putbacks.  Fourth, if you're as horrible as we are at shooting in the first place, you darn well better plan on getting 2nd and 3rd chance shots.

[kyyote]

Some years ago the NBA decided that the potential gain by getting offensive rebounds was outweighed by the risk of getting beat on a fast break, so they stopped crashing the boards, and basically decided to drop 3-4 back as soon as a shot went up.  If the center accidentally gets the rebound, OK.

A lot of coaches in the NCAA have adopted this as well, and evidence would suggest that Terry is one of them.  I disagree, and will explain why in a second.  But for what it's worth, Creighton and Butler are in the bottom 50 in this category, but at least 8 of the top 25 teams are in the top 50 in offensive rebounds.  We are #300.  Terry appears to me to be trying to run the same offense and defense as Texas Tech who is middle of the pack.  Only Tech has better athletes and a much superior coach.

Assuming that something that works in the NBA will work in college or high school is stupid.  The athletes just aren't as good.  There are a lot more offensive rebounds available to be grabbed in college than NBA for starters, which changes the calculations.  Second, people are doing studies on the theory and coming to the conclusion that statistically it may not even be correct in the NBA but looks less and less correct as you go down to college and high school.

No team should ever get a successful fast break against you if you make the shot whether on the initial shot or a putback after an offensive rebound.  Second, even for a team as bad as us, we have a much higher pct on the 3 on a 2nd chance where we get the board and kick it back out.  Third, if you are rebounding, you force your opponent to work harder for the rebound.  He can't drop more guys out for the break than you are crashing the boards with or you'll kill him with putbacks.  Fourth, if you're as horrible as we are at shooting in the first place, you darn well better plan on getting 2nd and 3rd chance shots.

A great post!  I highlighted that most important part.  We can't hit our shots!  Other teams make shots, we don't and just concede the rebound. Coach Haskins had a sure cure for not getting back on defense and it wasn't by abandoning rebounds.  It was by getting back down court and if you didn't you sat.  God help you if you were too tired or lazy to do it, too.  There is a reason why they complained about bloody feet.  The Bear knew that conditioning was the great equalizer.  No matter how talented the other guy is, if you run his dick into the ground, he isn't worth a shit and even the girls can make layups.  We can't.  We are evidently too talented for that.  Our guards can't shoot, can drive to make layups and evidently Terry doesn't think they can what is the word, oh yeah, guard, against the opposing team if the shot is missed.  With his thinking we can't rebound either, because we don't even try.  It is a good thing he likes defense, because we have no offense other than Williams.  We have no center!  Stop and think about that.  We don't need a center.  We have Williams to shoot and we don't bother rebounding, unless it is by accident.  We don't have guards that can shoot or get back on defense unless the whole team does.  Terry may be a smooth talking recruiter for a revolving door of players, but he can't coach.  The recruiting allows him to give people the idea that the team will be good, but his poor coaching eventually surfaces, and the defections are a hint that the players get it.  Snake oil salesmen find it easy to sell snake oil, but they always have to move to the next town before they are exposed.  Even Fresno State figured it out.  But, we are UTEP.  We are all about basketball.  We are too smart to fall for snake oil basketball.  Right?  Right?  Damn, another turn over!  Followed by another opponent's offensive rebound!  We are favored to beat the Road fucking Runners and we are giddy if we do.  In previous lifetimes UTSA basketball would have been an easy scrimmage for a UTEP basketball team.  Instead of wins we now look for recruits or transfers.  We have gone from The Bear to The Bull Snake-looks dangerous but it is just an illusion based on bull shit.

[SisyphusMiner]

The depressing thing is that in spite of all the coaching problems that we can so clearly see, Terry's 16-20 wins will certainly be perceived and portrayed by Senter as progress.  So we will see mediocrity continue for 5 years at least.  When players transfer out, it's just the way the NCAA is now.  When we repeat 16 wins, it's because talented players transferred out.  The question will not be asked "If they were talented enough to have made the difference on this year's team, why weren't they good enough last year to get sufficient PT to stay around?"

I was thinking that with the exception of Rabadeaux, every other post-Haskins coach would be sitting at 2-3 losses right now with these players.  Some of them might not have got them here, but he would have won those games given these players.

[kyyote]

Yep.  A Coach Haskins team would not have lost the game to LA Tech.  They damned sure wouldn't have turned the ball over thee times in 25 seconds.  If Haskins had Terry's players, he would have won 25 games.  In his time, it was understood that he would win all home games and half of his away games at least.  That was against much, much tougher competition, too.

Ask yourself what Barbee would have done with Efe, Ezeagoo, Williams, crashing the boards.  Even Boum would have been able to hit his shots, Id bet.  I can't really even imagine how much better the other players on this team would be!  That's Barbee and not Haskins.

[SisyphusMiner]

Barbee was pretty good.  I may be looking back with orange-tinted glasses, but I don't recall having any major concerns about his coaching ability.  Sadler and Gillispie would be at 2-3 losses with these players as well.  I expect Floyd would too, until he ran them off.

[Chanson]

Great post, Sisy. I agree 100%. FG% in college is no where close to the pros. Because of that difference, 2nd chances should be accounted for. I guarantee the top 25 teams in college have a high rebounding percentage on both sides.
Those schools do have superior players, but they do crash boards & allow the speed of the guards to slow down or foul the fast break.
I think another factor is that our kids are not comfortable playing with each other yet. Everyone just feeds off of Williams. You can totally tell because when it's time to close a game, the talent of the kid wants to take over, but the kids end up throwing the ball away trying to do too much. 2 things the Miners can hang there hats on this year is defense & free throws. Those 2 things keep us in 90% of games. Scoring & rebounding is the downfall.
In an interview, I heard CRT say to chill & a lot of basketball still needs to be played. I believe he is stalling, because he knows this team is not going to gel this year.
He will chalk the year up to progress & push to do better next year. I think we all were hoping the transfers would get us there quicker, but it doesnt look like that is coming. I also feel either Hawkins or Lathon will be gone after this year. This Kennedy kid coming in is supposed to be very athletic & pick up the slack on which ever kid leaves.

[SisyphusMiner]

I will say that when we hit that run at the end of the last game, we looked good.  Real good.  We were playing with energy and you could tell they believed they finally had hit their stride.  Then Terry blew it and you could see in their faces "here we go again".

If we can ever get to that feeling again and not blow it, things *could* turn around.  But Terry has to learn to manage games, and I don't see that happening magically.

[Minermojo]

The biggest asset in coaching as in managing a group of workers, a company of a sports team is you need common sense. If you don't have it then you'll keep repeating your mistakes hoping that the outcome is different which in most cases is not. Coach Terry and Dismal don't have any common sense and their reaction to criticism is to tune you out ala Coach Floyd.

[SisyphusMiner]

Yup.  Of course there's two sides to that.  You can't just change everything you're doing just because some idiots on a sports board are unhappy, but when things aren't working it's a good idea to start reaching out to your mentors for advice.

Makes me think of Rudyard Kipling's poem "IF..", a father's advice to his son on how to be a man:

     "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you...
      If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you but make allowance for their doubting too..."

He's saying believe in yourself, but at least be open to the possibility that you are wrong.  Not sure either head coach is capable of this.

[Chanson]

Our defense looks like ass tonight.

[Chanson]

42-28 UTSA at the half. We look really bad.

[Chanson]

I would have never guessed we would win after that 1st half. Could this be the spark?