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SisyphusMiner

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early season observations
« on: December 04, 2022, 09:19:41 AM »
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  • random observations, BTW I did not see the 2nd NMSU game.  Interested to see if others agree or have a different take


    Sibley seems tentative?  Still has skills but not stepping up?

    Z much improved, still a bit physically out of control.  Obviously worked on free throws in the summer.

    McKinney doesn't take care of the ball well, seems out of control a lot but dynamic.  Lots of really awful one handed passes off the dribble.  Roughly the same observation on Givance.   Tae Hardy a little more under control.

    Solomon hustles and works hard, but way out of control.

    I like Frazier.  Seems solid all around.

    Only 3 guys that consistently work the offensive glass -- Solomon, Dos Anjos, Hamilton

    Kalu improved, works hard in the post, but kind of lazy everywhere else.

    dos Anjos seems a bit rusty, unsurprising, but I like his court awareness and movement without the ball.  Nice shot, I think he'll be a key for us.

    Hamilton only has got time against inferior teams, but really impressed with his presence and soft hands.  More mobile than he looks like he ought to be.  He looks to me like he could have the potential to turn into something special.

    I like Lemus overall.

    Chanson

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #1 on: December 04, 2022, 09:40:25 PM »
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  • Overall, I agree with your assessment. None of our kids are shooters. Why didn't we recruit any shooters?
    Anyway, I didn't see the game on Sat, but am happy to see Dos Anjos back. I look forward to seeing his talent against DePaul this week.
      "He who has nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature & has no chance of being free unless kept so by better men than himself.

    kyyote

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #2 on: December 06, 2022, 10:38:53 AM »
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  • I'm not sure how any of this works anymore.  I thought the transfer portal and transfers without having to sit a year were because of covid.  Is that now just the way it goes or is there a time when recruits will have to go back to sitting a year if they transfer?  If this is the new way things work, do you even recruit high schoolers or just bring in transfers who have shown they can play?  I personally believe that we could be at the beginning of the end of the structure we use.  I am a fan of UTEP because of loyalty to my school.  I am/was loyal to my school's players because they are/were loyal to my school, too.  That is almost gone.  Here is a news flash for Golding.  The no name jerseys because you play for UTEP was fine in the past, because fans could get to know the names that went with the numbers.  But when the names and numbers change from year to year, there is no continuity.  And it isn't just me.  8,000 were in the house for an average game for years, with packed 12k fans were common.  I see the number of fans at every game and we used to get that many for a women's game. 

    What is next?  Well, if we are going to be a lower level farm team, you stop giving a rat's ass about winning or losing because it is really just a meaningless exercise to exhibit the players for the scouts.  Then you can decide if you want to make any money doing it or just say fuck it.  Ten cent hot dog nights or just let the transfers try to impress scouts and give up on fans entirely.  Let the big guys have all of the fans. 

    Some of this the powers have no control over, but some of it they do and have had and done nothing to stop the fall.  By now, we are in a free fall.  I have trouble keeping track of how many times UTEP has been ditched because of a fucking blatant lack of fucks given to do anything about it.  The people in charge of UTEP do not care one fucking iota about athletics.  It is kind of like they have to have teams but they are just to check boxes.  Again, I have bought the ability to watch the games and the Miners could easily just move back into Memorial Gym.  There was a time, when we talked about making the Don bigger.  If I remember right, it is designed to be able to expand.  The question is can it be shrunk to fit the "crowds".  The attendance for the last game is shown at 3500.  There must have been about a thousand no shows included in that.  Maybe more.  #500 would be more than a fourth full and it was nowhere close to that. 

    So, we are a developmental team, now.  If we have become just that, a one or two season stop, then it is reasonable to judge the team each year as our team for that year.  No more looking at development of players, since if they do they are gone.  Nope, if they aren't good enough to move up get rid of them because they didn't develop quickly enough.  Loyalty?  What does loyalty have to do with anything anymore. 

    Let's get down to it.  We had a team full of players from before Golding last yar, and we have a new team of Golding picking from the entire country.  Simple question.  Are we a better team at this time than we were at this time last year?  If we aren't, does that mean that we are worse off than we were with Terry?  Golding was hired off of one game-the UT game in the NCAA tournament.  Defense.  Has he had his team playing shut down defense or good defense, or maybe even same defense as everyone else?  How about offense?  Has the offense shown anything special?  Which team would win, this Golding team or the Terry team of two years ago.  How about last year's team?  Are we getting better, the same, or worse?

    Why on Earth did we not bring Billie Clyde back?  He is at Tarlton State in Killeen, Texas.  I think we could have got him.  Who do you think is a better coach, Gillespie or Golding?

    ps sorry, but losing to aggies by 25 points is way too fucking much for me to take without saying something.  Wilson?  Wilson?  Like a fucking ball with a face painted on it.  She has grabbed the bull by the horns and evidently was thrown out of the arena.  Leadership.  She is letting Senter show his chops.  Let's see.  How has Senter done.  Is UTEP better off or worse off since he took charge?  Are we moving up, down, or staying the same which is moving down?  We aren't moving up.  Unless you count Dimel going from no wins to winning a few.  You know.  Ninety percent of the teams in the country would never accept the football we have endured for years.  We got a deal.  We are trusting the process.  Although, the process seems to have changed to a see what you can get from the portal.

         
    « Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 10:56:27 AM by kyyote »

    Minermojo

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #3 on: December 06, 2022, 11:43:14 AM »
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  • What the Admins are really trying to do is wean the fans of UTEP sports. They don't care and they don't even try to hide it. I'm so fed up with this administration and the one before that and that's what I see in our future. It's pathetic and the Administration is pathetic for letting it happen.


    MinerInWisconsin

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #4 on: December 06, 2022, 08:07:55 PM »
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  • Too much gloom and doom.

    We have had much worse football many times in the past but we want much better than we have now. Lots of schools want better than they have. Personally, I agree that Dimel should have been let go at the end of this season because of so much inconsistancy and no bowl.

    Unfortunately Wilson, who is continuing the academic ascent that Natalicio started, let's her AD do the athletic thing. She helped him land Golding. Most fans wanted Golding and we got him. Taking a beating now and then is not unusual even for good basketball teams. Why don't we see what happens the rest of the season before we tar and feather him.

    I saw the AD run a successful campaign to sellout the Sun Bowl for the opener. I witnessed via tv the competitive first half devolve into a putrid 2nd and knew that the fans were so turned off they weren't coming back. I would have fired Dimel after the New Mexico game where the Miners committed 7, yes 7 turnovers.  The horrible attendance the rest of the year was due to that 1-3 start and the coaching staff was responsible for that. The AD is responible for not making a change. UTEP's president is responsible for letting the AD sit on his hands. Lots of action I would like to have seen in the football program but as I said earlier, we have been much, much worse.

    So it hasn't been a year we wanted but it hasn't been all bad either. I remain hopeful for good things in our athletic department and I will look forward to the rest of the basketball season, football recruiting, spring football, a football championship next year, etc. I will try not to let things I can't control ruin all that for me.

    kyyote

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #5 on: December 07, 2022, 09:08:19 AM »
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  • Sorry, again.  I wasn't trying to be all doom and gloom.  I was asking questions.
    1.  Is the transfer portal now just the way it works going forward.  Yes or no? 
    2.  If it is, is recruiting essentially dead?  Waste time and money trying to land a kid who just leaves to move up to a higher level school?  That's a question.  I mean it makes a difference. 
    3.  Do you no longer care about and need a good recruiter or just a guy who watched tape of players available?
    4.  Can you ever expect to make any money from fans without any player loyalty?  Do we now depend on wins and losses to generate fan support for unknown players?
    5.  Is 3-5 thousand fans just the new normal instead of 8-12 thousand?  Is an empty Sun Bowl just ok?
    6.  IF UTEP and all of the lower level teams are just where you start does that not change completely the whole reason for playing the game to an exhibition for players to show they are worthy of moving up and winning is secondary?  Well, we lost but soandso had a good night.  Hopefully he'll be gone soon!  That's crazy.


    7.  UTEP's condition over all athletically.  Is it moving up, down, or staying the same?
    8.  If football is king and I think we all believe it is, same question.  Since Price, has UTEP football gotten better, worse, or stayed the same?  In the years that have passed since Price, has the football team's standing in the country gone up or down? 
    9.  Have you seen any evidence that the president or ad are taking any steps to improve our situation?

    The basketball team.

    10.  Which team is better, Terry's team of two years ago or Golding's this year?  Simple.  Who assembled a better collection of players?  Would or should Golding have had an advantage because all of his were already tried and tested players while Terry had to recruit untested players.  Are we better or worse than two years ago?  Is this the new norm from one year to another?

    11.It is early, but if this is the new way of putting together a new team each year from the portal, can we not ask about how good the team is yet.  Too soon?  I think we have to adjust our evaluation time to the new no wasted time reality.

    12.  If Golding's hand-picked team is not better than Terry's team, have we gotten better or worse?  Simple question.  Are we better or worse? 



    kyyote

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #6 on: December 07, 2022, 07:49:44 PM »
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  • On a positive note, I have been looking at the ooc schedules for the 2023 cusa teams in football.  The newly constituted conference will have the opportunity to make a statement about the strength of the conference.

    Liberty
    BG, ODU, UMASs, Buff

    UTEP
    UIW, NW, Az, UNLV

    Sam
    Holy shit!  BYU, AFA, Houston

    JSU
    KentSt, EMU, and SC

    LA T 
    SMU, NW St, UNT, Neb

    FIU
    Maine, UConn, Ark

    MTSU
    Hama, Mizzu, MurSt, CO

    WKU
    USF, HCU, Ohio St, Troy

    It will be a chance to establish a high bar. Expectations will be low but there are some chances in there too. This next season may be the most important one in quite a few years.


    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #7 on: December 08, 2022, 06:30:34 AM »
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  • Opportunity for a W against a P5 school up gains a weak NW


    MinerInWisconsin

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2022, 07:05:43 AM »
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  • Sorry, again.  I wasn't trying to be all doom and gloom.  I was asking questions.
    1.  Is the transfer portal now just the way it works going forward.  Yes or no? 
    2.  If it is, is recruiting essentially dead?  Waste time and money trying to land a kid who just leaves to move up to a higher level school?  That's a question.  I mean it makes a difference. 
    3.  Do you no longer care about and need a good recruiter or just a guy who watched tape of players available?
    4.  Can you ever expect to make any money from fans without any player loyalty?  Do we now depend on wins and losses to generate fan support for unknown players?
    5.  Is 3-5 thousand fans just the new normal instead of 8-12 thousand?  Is an empty Sun Bowl just ok?
    6.  IF UTEP and all of the lower level teams are just where you start does that not change completely the whole reason for playing the game to an exhibition for players to show they are worthy of moving up and winning is secondary?  Well, we lost but soandso had a good night.  Hopefully he'll be gone soon!  That's crazy.


    7.  UTEP's condition over all athletically.  Is it moving up, down, or staying the same?
    8.  If football is king and I think we all believe it is, same question.  Since Price, has UTEP football gotten better, worse, or stayed the same?  In the years that have passed since Price, has the football team's standing in the country gone up or down? 
    9.  Have you seen any evidence that the president or ad are taking any steps to improve our situation?

    The basketball team.

    10.  Which team is better, Terry's team of two years ago or Golding's this year?  Simple.  Who assembled a better collection of players?  Would or should Golding have had an advantage because all of his were already tried and tested players while Terry had to recruit untested players.  Are we better or worse than two years ago?  Is this the new norm from one year to another?

    11.It is early, but if this is the new way of putting together a new team each year from the portal, can we not ask about how good the team is yet.  Too soon?  I think we have to adjust our evaluation time to the new no wasted time reality.

    12.  If Golding's hand-picked team is not better than Terry's team, have we gotten better or worse?  Simple question.  Are we better or worse?

    Sorry if I misunderstood and, of course, I don't know all the answers but I'll offer my current understanding of the newly minted transfer portal rules and an observation about NIL.

    The latest transfer portal rules take away the athletes right to enter the portal at any time. Football players have a 60 day window broken up into 45 days starting the day after the CFP teams are selected and a 15 day period in May. Basketball players have a 15 day period earlier and their 45 day window starts after the ncaa tourney selection. Athletes cannot transfer and play for a new school until the next season, so no middle of the season crap. Whether a player can continue playing for their current team while in the portal is up to their current coach. Players can transfer and play at their new school the very next season only once. If they transfer a 2nd time they have to sit out a year.

    NIL is totally out of hand and can have a big influence on whether or not a player enters the portal. Also, recruiting is now influenced by money for NIL as Senter recently stated. Many recruits now ask about available NIL money but at the G5 level and for 2 star athletes, there isn't going to be much if any. That's just reality. Also, almost half of those that enter the portal end up transferring down to fcs or jc and they lose benefits doing that. It's a risk.

    One thing Dimel has done well, gotta give credit where it's due, is keeping the majority of the team intact. Losing Cowing hurt but there are going to be some of those losses.

    So you are correct that we will no longer see all the players that are recruited and developed stay for the duration of their eligibility. It sucks but it is what it is.


    kyyote

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #9 on: December 10, 2022, 05:45:48 PM »
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  • Thank you for the answers to some questions.  So, as far as the portal goes, I would say it is a half step toward making it semi-official that there is the power 5 and the minor leagues of college basketball. 

    You cleared number 1 up for me.

    Number 2 it seems to me to maybe be a waste of time, when the transfer portal offers a proven commodity and perhaps a little more stability also. The strategy on this seems to me to be untested at this point.  I don't know.  It seems to me to be something like gambling on a kid that if he pans out he is gone and if he doesn't h can stay and just not play or move down.  Or, you can look for Grad students who are looking for a last chance, Seniors looking for a last chance at a last chance in the big five, but having to wait maybe.  I don't know what will be the best way to go with that aspect of it.  I will say that when fans know the players they care more about the team.  UTEP is my school and I owe it much, but I admit that I cared more when I knew the players and that they were Miners too.  I think the fan base is subject to the same thinking.  Some.  Not all. 
    Number 4.  I suppose you can.  But you have to win. Bandwagon fans aren't attracted to riding on a losing team's band wagon.
    Number 5 is answered.  Win or die.
    6.   Too doom and gloomy?.
    7.  ?
    8.  Seriously interested in what anyone thinks.
    9.  I haven't seen the aggressive steps taken to address the slipping(it seems to me) situation UTEP is in.  But I didn't and don't expect it, either.
    The whole NIL thing seems to be a ready made problem just waiting for the UTEP Business people to have a wonderful time providing solutions for.  Where is the money in El Paso? And why aren't they figuring out how to tap into it and show the players how to tap into it, too?


    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #10 on: December 10, 2022, 09:44:50 PM »
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  • See this is where I actually feel like formalizing the relationship with UT would be valuable.   We bring in money from their boosters to develop players.  There?s actually more stability and predictability.  Their boosters give at least a tiny shit what happens here and we pay attention to those of our fellas that move up.  There would be much less incentive for players to bail as they would be getting more in NIL than anyone else at our level.  Maybe our games would be on Longhorn so boosters can more easily watch the up and comers

    If UTEP is losing the hardest of hard core fans ? and it appears they are ? then might as well hitch your wagon to a star.  With UT?s money they will be at the top if they want to be.

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #11 on: December 10, 2022, 09:53:25 PM »
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  • Also, sine I live in the DFW area I?ve watched UNT closely over the years.  They had a really apathetic fan base for hoops, and not all that great for football.  The administration wanted to win though and made the appropriate moves

    Our administration does not appear to care much

    kyyote

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #12 on: December 11, 2022, 09:42:42 AM »
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  • Well, if you are just a minor league team as it appears we are just accepting and the ncaa is clearing up for us each year, yeah, there are advantages to being an affiliated minor league team over one that is unaffiliated.  Like you say, you can just become a UT fan and see some of your players show up sometimes.  How cool would it be if we could root for Cowing if only he was a Longhorn.  Yeah, lots of doom and gloom.  Maybe the presidents of UTEP were just ahead of the curve and saw the ncaa sell out of the lower tier teams long ago.  I have to say as I think about that, that maybe that is exactly what lower level presidents and ad's want.  Have you heard one of them say a word about what is happening? 

    "The NCAA has been tracking FBS attendance since 1976, two years before then-Division I-AA (Football Championship Subdivision) was created. The per-game national decline of 1,629 fans in 2021 is the steepest ever, a 3.93% drop from 2019.""College football attendance declines for seventh straight season to lowest average since 1981"

    "Nationally, the average attendance in 2021 was down 15%, more than 7,000 per game, from a record mark of 46,971 in 2008."

    However, it's bigger than that for a trend that continues to define the sport in the 21st century, according to SEC commissioner Greg Sankey.

    "There's plenty of, if you will, negativity around the collegiate sports world,"  he said. "People have said, 'Well, these decisions won't affect fan interest.' Well, something certainly is. It's not just TV. It's not just COVID. We have to rethink our approach on key issues. That's almost a Captain Obvious moment."

    These people don't get it because they are still at the top.  Ask Senter if this is the reason or if as I say the lack of connection, the generation of a lack of loyalty has more to do with it.  I know it has nothing to do with me.  I don't need better wifi at the game.
    ""We really are competing against the 70-inch TV and the beer that is cold in your refrigerator and no lines at the restroom," Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby said. "We have to continue to make sure we enhance the game day experience.""

    When you try to get information, you get the BIG 5 people talking about the decline.  Try and find the decline in attendance for mid-majors.  I will bet it is dropping like a rock!  I don't have numbers to share for you, but 20 yars ago we were averaging 35 thousands for football.  Now, you look at the stands and not at what UTEP says were there and it is one tenth of that.

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #13 on: December 11, 2022, 12:00:11 PM »
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  • I started writing a manifesto of how it would all work if I were king, but ended up deleting.  It won't happen and no one that's the "haves" cares, and no one that's the "have nots" has the cojones to put together a movement to break away. 

    Elitism is the order of the day, and the non-elites are just suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. 

    Minermojo

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    Re: early season observations
    « Reply #14 on: December 11, 2022, 08:03:46 PM »
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  • I believe that the REAL reason is because the Miners always hand the fans a platter of Schiff in a terra cotta plate. Look at the attendance at the FIRST  game, it was outstanding and what happened, the team Schiffed the bed and look at the next home attendance, it was pitiful.

    The ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T GIVE A FLYING SCHIFF IF WE WIN OR LOSE OR THAT THE ATTENDANCE SUFFERS BECAUSE OF THEIR DECISIONS or lack of. I love my Miners and it pains me to see the team suffer because they have to play under idiots who make bad decisions on the field or in choosing players to play here. I'll still follow them because I'm a fan but a very, very frustrated one.