Author Topic: leadership  (Read 637 times)

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SisyphusMiner

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leadership
« on: February 14, 2020, 08:49:12 AM »
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  • There's just no point in analyzing players, schemes, etc anymore.  I think the fundamental problem we have is lack of leadership.

    In basketball, there is no leader on the court.  Typically this is the point guard, but Lathon and/or Hawkins absolutely are not leaders.  The natural leader would be Williams, but from what I can tell he just plays.  He doesn't seem interested in providing leadership.  A true point guard would help this team a lot, and might actually have them in the top pod.

    Next step up, Terry obviously has some issues with leadership.  He does seem to try to take care of discipline issues, but it seems like it's gotten away from him.  Players missing buses, cussing at coaches, players jacking up 3s that can't even hit layups.  Trust the plan, trust the process.  Well if there was a discernable plan being followed it might be easier.

    In football, lack of leadership on and off field was evident.  With QB varying from game to game and no consistency from that position there was no leader on the football team.  It is equally evident there was no leadership on the sidelines either.  Failure to get substitutions right, failure to get plays called in on time, failure to control player on-field discipline issues.  Failure to hold coordinators responsible.  Again, trust the plan, trust the process.  What plan?  What process?

    Then at AD level, failure to hold Dimel accountable by firing incomepetence under him.  As far as  Terry, it will have to wait until season is over, but he "showed progress" so nothing will happen.  So no leadership from Senter.

    Will we see leadership from Wilson?  Looking like the answer is no.

    The thing that really bothers me is our conference is so sucky that a really good PG or really good QB could easily make the teams finish in the top tier and make our HCs look like they have a clue and then it would just continue on.  Each sucky season due to "not the right personnel -- it's so hard to recruit to EP"

    kyyote

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    Re: leadership
    « Reply #1 on: February 15, 2020, 09:01:39 AM »
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  • I am afraid that we all look at leadership in athletic teams from the perspective of leading toward a goal of winning.  There's nothing wrong with that, and in fact, that is the case almost always and what our experience would lead us to believe.  But what if the goal were something other than winning games?  Let's just say for argument's sake that the goal was for the team to have a composite grade point average of, let's say 3.7.  Let us also say that the reward for achieving was playing time on the hardwood.  Let us say that professors were asked to provide bi-weekly up dates on each player's progress in the classroom.  Just for argument's sake, let us say that Edwards as a graduate student is leading the players with a 4.0 gpa and so he plays the minutes he is able to play with some time lost due to needing to catch his breath and with fouls troubles thrown in.  His number of minutes would be what shows other players his leadership.  He leads by example in that case.  Even attitude towards refs would be somewhat overlooked due to his dedication in the academic performance he demonstrates in the classroom.  With that in mind, let's say that Vila is consistently kicking ass in his grades all semester so he gets the start and plays the most minutes as a reward.  Leading by leading in the gpa competition.  However last week, he was out performed by Verhoeven, and so for the WKU game, Verhoeven got the playing time, and because of it was able to show more of his basketball game.  Looking at the team the way we are used to, Vila's basketball game leaves us scratching our heads as to why he plays and starts as he does.  We wonder who is leading the team.  But what if in the team's eyes he is a great leader in the classroom, and challenged Verhoeven and Odigiie to beat him each week.  What if he not only challenges them, but helps them to pass tests, get work done with high quality, even if it means losing his starting position when Verhoeven gets a great report from all of his classes, even the one that has been holding him back, AND it was because of Vila's help and encouragement that provided the boost.  The team would see the incredible leadership and sacrifice Vila had shown.  The unsung hero gives his minutes to get another players success. It may be crazy to think this way, but we spend all season wondering what the Hell and can't make a lick of sense out of Terry's thinking.  But maybe we just have been using our traditional measurements when they aren't the measurements being used.  If I wrote posts with the first four letters in each word being random letters and then a real letter followed by four random letters, and then three, using Kyyote as an example, it might look like this; atpqkdwzyxbyvoplkmtjnvtule and it wouldn't make any sense to anyone reading it.  But if we in the Den understood the real way we do things all of a sudden all of us can understand it quite easily and if makes perfect sense.  We could even spot misspellings which would really complicate the understanding for outsiders.  Imagine the posts and crazy thinking they could express trying to read what we see easily.  It is my usual long winded way of saying instead of wondering about what seems to not make sense, perhaps it is simply because we are using the wrong code.  And using the wrong code will lead to seeing insanity where perfect sense is right before our eyes.  I do not know if it is grades or academic performance, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was.  But I am almost sure that there is a different logic or code being used by Terry than we normal folks judge basketball by.

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: leadership
    « Reply #2 on: February 15, 2020, 11:04:46 AM »
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  • Terry has suggested before that play time is based almost 100% on practice hustle and attitude.  If this is truly the case, a whole lot of things begin to make sense.  Quite possibly the #1 goal is not winning, but getting control of a bunch of self-absorbed brats who left other programs because of their attitudes.  In a desperate attempt to upgrade the talent level, he took chances on a lot of transfers, many of whom are not working out for the very reason they transferred.

    This would actually make me feel better about a lot of things.  I would still like to see him adjust his offense to what he actually has, but maybe you just can't do that game to game when you don't know who you're going to be playing?

    kyyote

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    Re: leadership
    « Reply #3 on: February 15, 2020, 11:30:14 AM »
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  • There you go.  I don't believe Terry is coo coo crazy.  You are already starting to make a little sense out of things.  So now we move the discussion to practice attitude and hustle.  Any decent coach, would demand 100% hustle or throw a player off a team.  If I only have 8 players in my rotation and need just 12 to practice, 17 means I can throw a couple out of the gym to make a point and never have to worry about that again.  That is cancer and as a coach, I cut cancer out before it spreads.  Attitude is damned near a tie for hustle.  Cancer spreads and must be removed as soon as it is detected.  If he has brought in cancer because it is talented cancer, he is not a good coach as far as I am concerned.  I have been the foreman of a production plant with 48 men under my command.  I could teach any one of them that was willing to learn.  But I would run off a cancerous employee in a quick minute.  One bad man can ruin all of them.  If Terry doesn't know that every thing he knows about basketball is worthless.  More than that, his teams will never be a team. It will be a collection of individuals some of which will be looking for a team and some looking to destroy any attempt at a team.  If Terry is looking to redeem souls, he needs a good book and a street corner to preach from. 

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: leadership
    « Reply #4 on: February 15, 2020, 12:23:44 PM »
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  • I think even at D1 college level some players are going to have off days or even couple days due to other things going on in their life like classes, family, girls, etc.  They are young and don't know how to fully compartmentalize.

    But maybe some are habitually half-assed.  Lets say for the sake of argument that Vila practices hard consistently, but Efe is lazy.  Lets say that Lathon and Hawkins are both immature and have an unhealthy rivalry, but Lathon on balance has a better practice attitude.  Verhoeven and Archie practice hard.  Tarke is a little up and down.  Stroud is still learning what's expected of him -- he's a freshman.  Let's assume Boum, Williams, Archie, Edwards are pretty consistent in practice.

    We aren't deep enough to ditch any of these guys.  Lathon is an awful shooter and not much of a point guard.  Vila is soft and makes bad decisions and can't shoot.  But you can't get rid of Hawkins and Efe because even coming off the bench they are better scorers than Vila or Lathon, and you don't have anyone to replace them with that isn't basically a walk on.   Archie and Stroud are just not there defensively and turn it over a LOT offensively.  Edwards is the only consistent 3 pt shooter. 

    And maybe Lathon and Hawkins are both cancers.  But you're stuck in this season because the alternative is to be as bad as last season.  At least with this crowd you're close to 50/50 and you get rid of guys in the offseason.  I don't know any of this, just speculating.  But to me Efe looks lazy on the floor, and I suspect Hawkins is just a very moody guy.  Lathon strikes me as having a bit of an attitude.  I could be dead wrong on all of this.

    But I think we could ditch both Lathon and Hawkins if we got a decent JC point guard, and if Williams stays and you can find a decent center or PF in the JC market all of a sudden next year looks pretty good.  Of course if I remember right, Lathon Hawkins, and Efe were all recruited as freshmen so that's not a great record...




    liebestraum

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    Re: leadership
    « Reply #5 on: February 15, 2020, 03:51:26 PM »
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  • For what it is worth, I wouldd like to share a personal perspective on some of this.

    One of my sons played college soccer.  He was a starter from day one and in his senior year he was named captain.  He was also playing for his third head coach by the time he was a senior.  I always thought he gave 100% on the field because he loved the game.  But five games into his last year, his coach benched him.  He was a forward but his new coach thought his defense was spotty, so he replaced him with a more defensive minded forward.  I think my son (and I) could have lived with that, except that the the overall defense stayed the same, but now the team had trouble scoring goals.  He still remained captain and (as far as I could see) served as a team leader.  But his final season was hard on him.  Towards the end of the season, he got a couple starts, including Senior day.  While the team won only 7 of 20 games that year - he started in 6 of those wins.  I am sure his coach was doing what he thought would be best for the entire team, but I never understood his game plans.

    It pains me to read similar posts from Denizens about the UTEP teams.  I do not get to see them play, so you are my eyes so to speak.  The more I read your comments, the more I relive the last soccer season my son had  It is not fun.

    lieb
    « Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 05:29:24 AM by liebestraum »

    kyyote

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    Re: leadership
    « Reply #6 on: February 15, 2020, 04:37:37 PM »
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  • My son played for the Westside Mustangs, a legendary youth football team in its day.  From his first year to his third year he was a defensive back and started every game.  He was the second smallest kid on the team the smallest was basically a mascot.  My son was a fearless tackler and in tackling drills when he would come up against the biggest kids the coach would tell him to switch with another kid.  My son would refuse and tell the coach he wanted the big guy.  And hit him with everything he had and bring him down.  I know he got up seeing stars a few times, but he always did his job and he always got up.  In the last year, a new coach replaced him as the starter at defensive back and moved him first to linebacker and then to defensive end.  My son never said a word, but he was in a very different role.  I just about came to blows with the coach who was a good 6 inches taller than me and outweighed me by 100 pounds, easy.  I wanted a piece of him for not doing right by my son.  I never started a fight in my life but over my son I was ready to start one and didn't care what happened.  I have an idea of your pain.  Coaches see things very differently than fans do, and parents and coaches can be light years apart in how they see things.  And not much of anything can be more intensely felt.

    I was at every practice, as I served as an assistant coach.  My son nor I ever missed a practice in the four years.  My son and I did not enjoy the fourth year as we had the first three.  The coach was a good man.  He saw the players much differently than those who had been there for the three years before he came.  But, it was an experience we learned from.  I learned that my son had insanely large balls.  Because when I was his age, I would reach for a shirt from arms length rather than get run over.  I think he may have learned that his dad was crazy.  lol  We both learned that we had to teach his mother not to say things like "Break his arm!"  lol  You have met wy wife.  She is the sweetest woman you would ever want to meet. lol

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: leadership
    « Reply #7 on: February 15, 2020, 08:46:21 PM »
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  • I have some similar experiences with my kids as well.  For sure every parent and every coach will see things differently.

    IMO, Lathon is an absolutely awful point guard.  He just doesn't have a sense of the flow of the game.  Maybe he would be OK if he wasn't playing point.  I don't know.

    Trying to take a high level view, Terry's offense can work, and would have worked much better if we had a more complete team.  We basically had:
    Edwards -- a pretty consistent player who turns the ball over too much
    Boum -- A very streaky shooter who scored on a very high volume of shots, and
    Williams -- A fantastic big man who turns the ball over too much.

    Occasionally Hawkins, Stroud, or Efe had a decent game.  Verhoeven progressed.

    But with a good point guard and a better PF or C (Bryson can play either), we would have won 5-6 more games.  If Boum could hit 33% this year we would have been in the top couple teams.