Author Topic: Consumer Fraud  (Read 527 times)

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kyyote

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Consumer Fraud
« on: December 31, 2019, 01:39:52 PM »
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  • "Consumer fraud is commonly defined as deceptive business practices that cause consumers to suffer financial or other losses. The victims believe they are participating in a legal and valid business transaction when they are actually being defrauded."

    A discussion about players sitting out bowl games is what got me started, but the transfers of basketball players really led me to this.  The NCAA has legalized a form of consumer fraud in their bring "free agency" to college sports.

    I basically quit caring about professional baseball and then football many years ago.  When I was a kid, I could tell you who played every position first on the SF Giants and then when the A's came to Oakland, the A's.  The players and the teams represented me, my home town area, and the fans who supported them.  Free agency killed that.  They became mercenaries with their only allegiance to the dollars they could make.  They came and went like thieves in the night.  They no longer gave a rat's ass about me, the town or the fans who supported them.  But, at least they were honest about it.  Those who paid to see them knew what the players and teams thought.  The only thing that mattered was the bottom line, the money made.  Most fans continued to believe that the players cared for something other than just the money, and some players still did.  It was about character and integrity.  They felt that they owed the fans more than a day's work for a days pay, as fans were more than just customers.  No one shops at Wal Mart because of their love of the employees.  But sports and fans had more than a customer relationship.  Kind of.  Over the years, the line has blurred.  Contracts holding players in a town for at least a few years kept the belief that there was a connection that meant more than just a paycheck between players and fans.  Not enough for me.  I no longer could convince myself that the players actually cared about my town, me, or the fans, other than the money we paid.  But like I said, it was honest and above board.

    That brings me to college sports.  My love of the university of Texas at El Paso come directly from the life changing difference it made for me and my family.  It meant the difference of being not just able to survive financially, but the be successful and able to have a good life for myself and my family.  And it wasn't just because I paid my tuition.  They took a chance on me, and helped me enormously along the way.  I will be forever grateful for it.  Although a teacher isn't making big money, I found ways to contribute back to the school I love.  And I found the teams to put my love in and to root for.  The fact that they rarely won football games was just the way it went, because loyalty and support wasn't because of a winning record.  Basketball was much easier because we won, but still, it was about loyalty and love of my school that made me a fan of UTEP teams.  Winning just made it more enjoyable.

    Now, they NCAA is busy taking that away.  They are basically making mercenaries of the players.  The difference is, their is a measure of fraud involved, that the NCAA allows and the school and players are a part of.  Let me see if I can make it more clear as to the fraud.  If you were the producer of a play and you sought financial support to produce it from investors, telling them it would have ten of the top drawings stars of stage and screen in the starring roles, but then on opening night it had none of those stars on stage, but had their stand-ins saying the lines, you would be looking at prison time.  The investors would demand their money back.  The people who purchased tickets would demand their money back.  And the district attorney would be getting charges ready for the court case to follow.  The Sun Bowl and other bowl games are selling tickets to a show promising ticket purchasing public a chance to watch great players only to find out that second team players will be playing instead.  I have letters from the President of UTEP asking me to donate money to support teams with an implied understanding that I will be helping to support a person to attain the financial success that I did and hopefully with a love and loyalty to my school, when in fact the money is going to supplement a minor league player with no love, no loyalty, and no connection to the school I love.  That is fraud.  The NCAA is not only allowing it to happen, it is providing cover for it, in a fraudulent way, I might add.  The university president is signing off on it and the school is going along with it.

    From that, I say fuck you!  I shout fuck you, you fucking scumbag to the players who come here only for the dollars while accepting the support fraudulently.  I have no use for them, and I say don't let the door hit you where the Lord split you to each and every one of the worthless bastards.  I hope that they get a career ending injury for their trouble as a reward for their mercenary existence and a measure of justice for their lack of honor and integrity.  To the players who would sit out of a bowl game, the same thing. 

    I understand that I am old and that this in how it is nowadays.  That doesn't make it right.  I understand that it may be that my thoughts could be seen as un-Christian like.  Maybe.  Maybe it is justice and fairness.  Maybe it is Old Testament.  I don't know.  But I know that dishonor, and disloyalty should not be rewarded lest it begets more dishonor and disloyalty and perhaps some clear lessons might help get things back to right.

    End of old man rant.

    Happy New Year to all of those who deserve it and have earned it.  Go piss up a rope those who deserve and have earned that!   

    liebestraum

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    Re: Consumer Fraud
    « Reply #1 on: December 31, 2019, 03:53:31 PM »
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  • Some (tangential) thoughts to your post.

    The United States is the only country in the world where universities have such a strong tie-in with sports teams.  In other places, universities exist as centers of learning only - they do not have sports teams.  I’m also pretty sure this is also true of secondary schools.  In the specific cases of football and basketball, the US college system serves as a free minor league system.  Again, this does not happen elsewhere.

    In other countries, sports teams are run by clubs - soccer is an excellent example of this: kids go to school and they play club sports.  In the US, this is somewhat true of “minor” sports such as soccer and volleyball come to mind.  Baseball may be the exception here - it had minor leagues long before universities ever really cared about the sport.

    And because of this, US universities now use their athletic side to promote brand loyalty.  I’ve seen many people post here how it is “nice” that UTEP is a Tier-1 academic university, but DAMMIT, our brand sucks because our sports teams do. 

    The day is coming when the athletic side of universities is going to become blatantly separate from the academic side.  If you don’t believe me, you should note that non- Power 5 universities are starting to push more online programs that generate revenue while decreasing instructional staffing expenses.  I know more than one university in Texas has taken a long, hard, look at the ubiquitous ads you see for Southern New Hampshire University.  This is a real bricks and mortar school with a huge national online program.  And Lamar University in Beaumont turned over their entire graduate program to a for-profit entity that increased their graduate enrollment astronomically because of online offerings.  They still field the standard sports teams, but I wonder how long all of that will last.

    All of this to say - as long as US higher ed institutions want to be subservient to the brand loyalty brought in by sports teams, the current marketing strategy won’t change.

    Don’t believe me?  Here’s a metric you might want to look at:  Which universities have the most Nobel Laureates on campus?  You have the usual suspects: Harvard (151), Yale (52), MIT (83), Cal Tech (33).   But then we also have Cal-Berkeley (69), Stanford (58), Illinois (24), Minnesota (23), Wisconsin (19), UCLA (15), Duke (12), Washington (12).  All of these are among the top 50 in the WORLD.  But alums from those places probably care more about the football and basketball teams.

    The fact that we prefer to celebrate athletic branding over the intellectual tells you how this trend is going to continue.

    lieb

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: Consumer Fraud
    « Reply #2 on: December 31, 2019, 04:10:11 PM »
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  • Here's the other thing:  The major schools are not interested in allowing competition from the mid-majors (I know, P5, whatever, you know what I mean).  They are taking action constantly through their puppet NCAA to shut the UTEPs out.

    It is already fait accompli in football and well on its way in basketball.  We all keep hoping the varsity QB will ask us to the dance but it's not going to happen. 

    kyyote

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    Re: Consumer Fraud
    « Reply #3 on: December 31, 2019, 05:42:32 PM »
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  • A very rich topic.  With home schooling becoming more and more popular, only education will not only continue to grow, tax payers are going to start complaining about funding brick and mortar schools.  In El Paso, the lion's share of my home owner's tax bill goes to El Paso ISD.  The thing that keeps it going is the babysitting aspect.  Once someone figures out how to provide babysitting and online education in small, safe, self contained settings-and show that they can out perform the students at public schools on a regular basis, and for much less in cost, taxpayers are going to push for parents to fund their own children's education.  Lots and lots of very large buildings are going to sit empty.  The times they are a changing.  One teacher will be able to teach many, many students over the internet.  The cost of education with all of its extra high cost functions are going to fall away, and with an added bonus of student safety.  Add to that, the fact that students don't play outside like us old folks did as kids, physical education, or play time will be online playing games while sitting on their asses.  Middle school PE was walking around the track with a cell phone in their hand long before I retired.  Those phones and what was available was the stone age-fifteen years ago.  We can already see a continued and growing lack of interest from the paying students for athletic programs and sports at universities.  The Don is lucky to get 8k old people to attend and the students probably number less than a thousand.

    Chanson

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    Re: Consumer Fraud
    « Reply #4 on: January 02, 2020, 02:14:33 AM »
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  • So, I read this chain a few days ago and wanted to respond without thinking.
    I agree with all of you. School should be the last place to be bought. Sports scholarships are to be used to further your education.
    Now, kids deciding not to play in bowl games have every right not to participate. Now, coach can take away the scholly if the kid does that, but by that time the kid knows he/she is going Pro. Nothing wrong with that.
    School is becoming more & more expensive & the sports programs have a lot to do with it.
    I'm thinking the only way to do something about it is not show up or support sports. I think we all know that will never happen. A change in the NCAA or even a totally new structure? I don't think that will ever happen. If it does, coaches & schools will find a way around that to win & make more $ for the school.
    I don't like it at all, but we have to live with it. Even high schools find ways to pick up kids & get them to move to a school zone on the promise of colleges paying the way.
      "He who has nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature & has no chance of being free unless kept so by better men than himself.