Author Topic: Compete Versus Competitive  (Read 1887 times)

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kyyote

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Compete Versus Competitive
« on: October 14, 2017, 11:10:30 AM »
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  • Coach Kugler up until the very last assured those who were listening that his players would compete, and they did.  But they were still serving as a speed bump for the teams they played.  They barely slowed teams down and didn't move at all when they had the ball.  Yet, as Kugler said, they were competing.  They were competing pretty hard as best as they were able.
    Last Saturday, the same players and coaches went out and were not only competing, for the first time in a very long time, the team was competitive.  The speed bump became a road block and the offense that had rusted from lack of use cranked up, and sputtered to life.  It was no Lamborghini, it was more Briggs and Stratton, but is showed it was still capable of motion and functionality. Head Coach Mike Price allowed that the whole game was all about the players and coaches, and that he had nothing to do with it.  Of course, he was right.  Mike Price was just there because the team needed a responsible adult.  That is the quintessential Mike Price.  He speaks the truth.  He is a master at how he speaks the truth and about which truths he speaks.  He is masterful in choosing different speech, and truths for different people.  He also happens to have shown himself to have a deep understanding of the game and an ability to do more with less over his career.  Coach Price was very busy on Monday, at the Media Luncheon.  He was doing some of his best coaching.  He was coaching up his players, coaches, media, and fans.  The kids and players were great players and coaches, the fans were still the best fans, he was just there to hold down the fort and it was nice to see old friends in the media.  Every word was the truth.  Every word was heart-felt.  It is that holding down the fort part that is the key.
    If you were one of the fans in the Sun Bowl last Saturday, you know that there was an intangible difference.  The players were playing differently.  The crowd was different.  Even before the game there was an anticipation and perhaps some hope in some of the fan's minds and hearts.  As the first half played out, that was fed by the play and play calling that seemed to be a bit more inspired.  As the team left the field to delirious chants of UTEP from the sparse crowd, the crowd sensed a difference.  The players may have been motivated by something else, but the fans were responding to the difference they could see, and one of the differences was the old coach with a bit of a hitch in his get along pacing the sidelines and encouraging the players.  Who knows how much if any effect Coach Price's take over of the helm may have had.
    Today may give us a better idea, but those who believe that everything was in place and nothing changed and those who believe that Mike Price had an instant impact will still plead their cases.  There may be little evidence in this game for either one, as Southern Miss has usually played UTEP tough and are always very physical. So, there will be the physicality that Kugler tried to build and at this point left questioning matched against the physicality of Southern Miss, perhaps the Achilles' Heel of Mike Price's offense of the past.  So, that will be a twist that throws the arguments into full on debate mode after this game.  Perhaps.
    So, today's game should be a fun one for Miners fans.  There is finally something to talk about other than how bad things are.  I didn't believe the Miners would be able to do more than compete at the beginning of the season.  The first five games the did that.  The next game, the didn't just compete.  They were competitive.  I don't know if it was because of Mike Price.  Here is the thing.  When Mike Price got here, UTEP football was not competitive.  They competed.  Somewhat.  Mike Price made the UTEP Miners instantly competitive.  The one thing that he did that was different from other coaches was that even when the team wasn't winning enough games toward the end, the team was always competitive!  Even when the team played the big boys, it was fun, because when we lost, it was us just laying down.  It was fun, throwing haymakers and knocking the Hell out of the best of them.  We may have lost the fights, but the other guy knew he had been in a fight.
    That is what I will be looking for, today. Will they compete or will they be competitive.  If they just compete, I will be shocked and disappointed.  If they are competitive, I will be even more convinced that Mike Price has brought back that competitiveness that was gone, again.
    It is way too early to let this kind of talk get started, but I can't resist.  If Mike Price were to somehow get the Miners Bowl Game eligible, would he not have the rightful claim to the Best UTEP Coach of them all?  I know.  Bobby Dobbs and the Flyin' Miners beat Ole Miss.  I am talking about coaching.  If he did it with Nord's players and then did it with Kugler's kids, after the start to this season, it would be quite an accomplishment.  This could be the ultimate motivational tool.  For Sean, and for Mike, let's get to a bowl game!
    That is how the Kyyote howls when the Miners give me hope.  And it doesn't take much.  Come on, Miners.  Let's shock the world!
    Go Miners!

    Chanson

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 08:02:19 PM »
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  • KY, that was nice. Good job, mijo.
      "He who has nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature & has no chance of being free unless kept so by better men than himself.

    liebestraum

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #2 on: October 15, 2017, 05:54:54 AM »
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  • Admittedly, I did not see the entire game.  What I saw was they still cannot run the ball but that's OK because they can't pass, either. 

    They may have been competing, but they weren't competitive.  Price may be bringing a different attitude, but the results have still been the same.

    lieb

    MinerInWisconsin

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 06:26:15 AM »
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  • The team was competitive with Army for the first half and wasn't terrible in the second half. The Miners were competitive with WKU and should have won that game. They were competitive with USM except they forgot to play offense and the defense could not do the whole thing by themselves.

    I think whoever the new coach is needs to be a pass happy, spread offense kind of guy, bring in some JC skill position talent in his first year and he should keep Tom Mason as the DC since he has the defense playing well now.

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 11:44:34 AM »
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  • I guess I have a different definition than what Kyy is using.

    To me, competing means they have a reasonable chance at winning most games if a few things go their way.  Competing is not losing by more than 14 points.  To me, Kyy's definition of competing is essentially a participation award.

    Competitive means sitting in the upper 25% of the conference.

    Given our conference, being competitive pretty much only requires being ranked somewhere higher than #75 in the country.

    kyyote

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 02:18:05 PM »
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  • I am using Kugler's definition of compete.  To me, based on his determination and assurance that what we were seeing is his players competing.  I would say that means that they will try real hard to be better than the other guy/team, and I figure that is what Kugler meant.  Being competitive means there is a chance of winning.  I could compete in a marathon.  I would not be competitive.

    I waited a little bit to see reactions to the teams effort in the game.

    I had written that we might get a better idea of the impact on the team, if any, the addition of Mike Price might have.  The thing is, the game not only didn't help, it threw a strange twist into the situation.  The offense was competing but was far from competitive, while the defense, on the other hand was competing and was pretty damned competitive considering what the offense was doing.  The offense showed that it not only doesn't like the pass, it despised it so much that the passing arm of the offense withered and is there, but nearly non-functional. 

    As a fan, I think Mike Price brought a glimmer of hope.  The situation may be beyond hope, but for some of us who wear orange colored glasses he represents a chance of winning.  For the team, I am not convinced he has changed things, or maybe he has.  I don't know.  The one thing that has begun to emerge from the from the wreckage is a defense that is developing a bad attitude toward opposing teams and players and I like it.  It is hard to maintain the kind of intensity they have, when the offense is just not holding up their end of the bargain.  Perhaps the players are making their choice known, regarding the next head coach.
    « Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 12:04:40 PM by kyyote »

    MinerInWisconsin

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 02:45:30 PM »
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  • There are a few head coaches in college football that are also the OC. For the rest of this season I think Mike Price should take over the OC duties. Whether or not it's announced, the team has absolutely nothing to lose by taking this bye week and working on some form of the spread offense and scrap that ugly, nonproductive smash mouth current offense. Price has two weeks to get ready for a good UTSA team. I expect the defense will show up again and do their part. If Price installs a spread in the meantime, the team will at least have a chance. They have none with this offense.

    Minermojo

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 07:04:44 PM »
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  • I agree. Even if we lose at least they'll make the game exciting versus that offense that only produces groans from the fans and probably from the players too.

    Good post Wisconsin.


    Spelunker

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 07:05:13 PM »
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  • For my 2 cents, all athletes compete (try to win) whether they are in little league, jr. high, high school, or college.  As you move up in the level of competition more and more kids are flushed out because of one very tangible factor.  It is called talent!  UTEP's problem is very obvious, they want to compete, but they lack the talent to be competitive (it seems even in CUSA).  The years of sub-par recruiting, and I am sorry but the emphasis on signing marginal D1 El Paso kids (roughly 1/3 of the roster) have caught up to them.

    I believe that Mike Price can truly instill confidence and coach kids up as well as anyone, but he cannot overcome the fact that The Miners are going into gunfights with a slingshot.  The age old problem with UTEP football is recruiting the TALENTED players to El Paso that can be coached up to not only be competitive, but win.  I think that is the challenge to the new HC.  It is one that has not been overcome in a sustainable manner in over a half century.  It will take a Bobby Bowden type to finally turn this thing around.  Can it happen, sure!  Will it happen?  Lord I hope so!!!! 

    utep2step

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 09:45:52 AM »
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  • While I agree with Ky my approach is to get the fans fed up and say "We're not going to going to take this anymore!" just like they do with CTF. I'm not expecting the head coach to be a Don Haskins who embraced El Paso (sometimes a little bit too much, but that's a different story) but you don't hear "just drop the basketball program". Instead, you just hear "Fire Floyd". The fans expect UTEP basketball to be successful; not every year but pretty darn close. In football it's just "Eh! Whatever!". Big major differences for both programs.

    If you feel like pulling out your hair or rolling your eyeballs back for a while just read the pendejadas on the EP Times or social media regarding UTEP athletics. There are even people who still can't see just how big of a city El Paso is (and that's within the city incorporated boundaries) so, therefore, UTEP can't bring the recruits in. Really?! [Facepalm]
    « Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 09:47:54 AM by utep2step »

    liebestraum

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 03:49:54 PM »
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  • I mostly agree with this.  One caveat:  with football, there is a place to "drop" - i.e., FCS rather than the current FBS.  So that's why people make that suggestion.  (Not something I agree with.)

    There is no such distinction in basketball - I think nearly all the FCS football schools are D-I in basketball.  The next level below that is D-II.

    This moment of pendantry has been brought to you by the letter i before e, except after c, or when sounded like "a" as in neighbor or weigh.  Weird, huh?   :P

    lieb

    SisyphusMiner

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #11 on: October 16, 2017, 08:47:48 PM »
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  • “I” before “e” except when you run a feisty heist on a weird beige foreign neighbour

    MinerMaestro

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    Re: Compete Versus Competitive
    « Reply #12 on: October 17, 2017, 12:55:20 PM »
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  • “I” before “e” except when you run a feisty heist on a weird beige foreign neighbour

    Karma!!!!

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