basketball post mortem

[SisyphusMiner]

Final game:  Edwards disappears, we lose.   He had an awful game, couldn't defend Kinsey at all, which was a huge factor.

Status:  We finished > 50/50.  Improvement shown mostly in having better players, although defense was generally much improved.

Coaching:  Mixed.  Defense has improved, it is clear there is a mindset coach is trying to instill.  Recruiting improved overall.  Zero ability to adjust mid-game.  I mean none at all.  There was not a single change made to prevent the pick and roll that killed us all night against Marshall.  And that was on the defensive end which is supposed to be Terry's thing.  Offensively I don't believe he has a single clue.  IMO, under Terry we will probably generally be in the top tier of the conference due to defense, and occasionally have the right personnel to win. Some years we will struggle to be in the top half.  Terry is not the next Haskins, the next Gillispie, the next Barbee or Sadler.  He is probably better than Rabadeaux, but possibly not.

Players:
The 7-deep
   Edwards is gone.  I appreciate his contributions.
   Williams -- hope he is back next year.  should be a beast.  Clearly not a natural leader.
   Boum -- I think he found his form.  He will be good.
   Lathon -- If he can play like he did the final game he is worth keeping.  If he plays like he did most of the season, I don't really care.
   Stroud -- I like him, hope we keep him.
   Archie -- Has moments.  Maybe he can learn to get it all under control.  Very athletic, worth keeping around.
   Verhoeven -- Love his energy.  Heads up, smart player, great motor.  No offensive contribution.  Keep, but hope to find an interior player with offense.

The rest
   Vila -- Useless.  ditch.
   Hawkins -- OK, but will probably never crack starting lineup again.  Ditch if you can replace with better quality.
   Efe -- I just don't know.  He has some skills, but is so damn slow and often lazy.  Keep, as we don't have much depth inside.
  Tarke -- good hustle, low skills.  depends on whether we have someone coming to make room for.

Coming
   Kennedy -- Presumably the real deal.  Will help replace the Edwards of the Bonus Play.
  McGriff  -- Maybe the point guard we've been looking for.  Really hard to pin your hopes on an incoming true freshman.

Needs
  A solid true point guard and emotional leader.  Lathon?  McGriff?  Grad transfer?
  A consistent SG.  Kennedy?  Boum?
  A center with offensive game.

Outlook
  I find our recruiting uninspiring, our coach lacking in skills.  If we bring back the 6 returning players from last game and Kennedy can step up and Lathon doesn't suck we could be in the top half of the conference.  Top tier possibly, except that other teams will figure us out and we can't adapt.
 

[ATL-Miner]

Both Lathon and Hawkins are transferring.   

Lou Romano
@RomanoCBS4
Sources telling CBS4/KFOX14 Jordan Lathon has informed @UTEP_MBB
 that he won?t return next season.  @CBS4Local
 @KFOX14
 @PatrickKFOX14

https://twitter.com/RomanoCBS4/status/1240703896424599556

Adrian Broaddus
@adrian_broaddus
Not a shocker, but Nigel Hawkins becomes the first UTEP basketball player in the transfer portal per @VerbalCommits
.
https://twitter.com/adrian_broaddus/status/1240699303745576966

[Chanson]

Tough to lose both, but I think we saw it coming with the issues with both earlier this year. Both were athletic & physical, but couldn't handle shooting or being a good PG. The PG position has been a problem since Terry got here. We need a solution now. I think we will be OK 3 - 5 positions if everyone stays. Boom is the only proven guard for the next 2yrs. Stroud needs to step up & play like he has a pair.
Here's what we have coming next year so far:
Williams- top 20 PF in country
Verhoeven- Hell of a defender & needs post movies on O
Odigie- Needs better footwork & defensive skills
Villa- Has speed for his size, but that's it.
Tarke- I can't figure him out. He tries to hard
Archie- Mr. Hustle. Needs to be more effective on O
Stroud- most athletic since Hunter, just need D & consistency
Boum- Streaky & should be much improved his Jr year.
Kennedy- I hear he is taking over for Edwards. We shall see.
Newbies- to be determined.
Only 2 strong players in William's & Boum, but that's it. Not looking good for Terry at this time.

[SisyphusMiner]

I'd say there's a reasonable shot we are better without them, especially if we get a decent point to replace them.  They just weren't all that good, and I really suspect at least one of them was responsible for the chemistry issues.

The Great One, The Bear, is still correct today -- You're only as good as your guards.

[SisyphusMiner]

Tarke leaving as well.  Too bad, i really liked him but I have to admit he was not working out as hoped. 

How many scholarships will we have free with these three out?

Next one out?  Vila?

[Chanson]

Tarke leaving as well.  Too bad, i really liked him but I have to admit he was not working out as hoped. 

How many scholarships will we have free with these three out?

Next one out?  Vila?

I agree completely. The kid was athletic & strong, but couldn't shoot, score, or hit a free throw. He was a liability. With all these open schollies & no one to fill them, what is Terry planning? He seems to recruit athletes & not basketball players. Also, why is it every team can pick up shooters except UTEP? Yes, we picked up Edward's for 1yr, but that's it. Boum is a scorer that is still finding himself, Lathon & Hawkins couldn't shoot, & that's a we had at the 1 & 2 positions. Hell, they couldnt even pass very well. Just look at the turn over stats.
Terry needs more ball plays & less athletic kids.
What I mean by ball players is sound fundamentals, shooting, defense, IQ, ball control, court vision, etc. Not fastest, strongest, highest jumper, etc.
A good combo is the idea, but that is not what we have.

[SisyphusMiner]

Tarke leaving as well.  Too bad, i really liked him but I have to admit he was not working out as hoped. 

How many scholarships will we have free with these three out?

Next one out?  Vila?

I agree completely. The kid was athletic & strong, but couldn't shoot, score, or hit a free throw. He was a liability. With all these open schollies & no one to fill them, what is Terry planning? He seems to recruit athletes & not basketball players. Also, why is it every team can pick up shooters except UTEP? Yes, we picked up Edward's for 1yr, but that's it. Boum is a scorer that is still finding himself, Lathon & Hawkins couldn't shoot, & that's a we had at the 1 & 2 positions. Hell, they couldnt even pass very well. Just look at the turn over stats.
Terry needs more ball plays & less athletic kids.
What I mean by ball players is sound fundamentals, shooting, defense, IQ, ball control, court vision, etc. Not fastest, strongest, highest jumper, etc.
A good combo is the idea, but that is not what we have.

I agree completely with everything you are saying, especially the difference between athletes and players.  We must have both gone to the Don Haskins school of basketball.

The multimillion dollar question is "does Terry know the difference"?  It's not real evident that he does.  In fact its not real evident what his skill set is.

[Chanson]

Let's try to get back to the recruiting grind.

Leaving: 6'4" Lathon, 6'4" Hawkins, 6'4" Edwards & 6'6" Tarke
Coming in 6'4" combo guard McGriff, 6'7" SF Onyema, & 6'5" Kennedy.
Now, Kennedy was Gray Shirted, so that is already a scholly we counted last year. Which means we have 2 more openings, if no one else leaves. (Please correct if I'm wrong) If anyone leaves, it might be Vila, but I don't think so. That kid really needs to put some work in.
Anyway, we need a PG & a shooter, big time. William's, Odigie, Verhoeven, & Vila should have the inside covered.
Archie, Kennedy, & Onyema should have the the covered OK. The 2 with Boum is good, but he has no back up. McGriff looks OK at the 1, but he's not proven at D1 level.
Have I missed anyone?
Anyway, Terry better have a plan and be able to execute or I feel he will be gone.

Thoughts?

[SisyphusMiner]

Kennedy was a 4 star SG, and was recruited to Xavier.  Until proven otherwise I will assume he is the real deal.  To me -- assuming we don't lose Williams -- next year comes down 100% to securing a good PG.  We will be as good as our PG and no better.  We need to be looking hard at JC and grad transfers.  I would spend both schollies on PG -- unless he has reason to doubt Kennedy.

Edit to add :  Just saw Stroud is leaving.  Something is very wrong.

[ATL-Miner]

Yep, this is bad with Stroud going also. It's hard to believe we have lost Ezeagu, Hawkins, Lathon, Tarke and Stroud transferring out this year in addition to the two signed freshman Zarzuela and Wenzell who never made it to the start of the fall semester.

Not impressed with Terry, or his assistants, at all.

Did read today that we were one of thirteen schools vying for Arkansas PG grad transfer Jalen Harris. But at this point, who cares with another rebuilding year on the horizon.

Kennedy was a 4 star SG, and was recruited to Xavier.  Until proven otherwise I will assume he is the real deal.  To me -- assuming we don't lose Williams -- next year comes down 100% to securing a good PG.  We will be as good as our PG and no better.  We need to be looking hard at JC and grad transfers.  I would spend both schollies on PG -- unless he has reason to doubt Kennedy.

Edit to add :  Just saw Stroud is leaving.  Something is very wrong.

[Chanson]

I forgot to add Stroud to the 3 position mix, but it looks like we just got less athletic with Stroud gone.

Kids leaving/have left this season not graduating:
Stroud, Hawkins, Lathon, Tarke, Ezeagu.
That's one at every position. I'm seeing a pattern here we have talked about. All these kids leaving are fantastic athletes & not really fantastic basketball players. None of those kids can shoot, score, or play defense.
I hope it is a silver lining I'm seeing here & Terry brings in kids who can play. If that is the case, then then Terry has been lying to us all from the beginning. Coming on his 3rd year & will be his 3rd re-build season. He's not building a program. He's taking bad risks to win now. Let's say he does win his 3rd year. He will have nothing left over to continue to win & that means every year is a crap shoot instead of a sound program.
I do like Terry's style of play, but he can't execute. If we are gonna rebuild again, I say give another coach a shot & list Terry in the Transfer Portal.
Unfortunately, it's not gonna happen. UTEP has not evolved with other schools in running good sports programs. Disappointing to say the least.

[kyyote]

Live by the sword and die by the sword.  Take in transfers by the dozen and watch transfers leave by the dozen.  Terry doesn't build a team.  He assembles groups of players.  There is no continuity when they are on the floor, there is no camaraderie, and there is no sacrificing of individuality for the good of the team.  There is looking to be the star.  If you have that, people naturally leave because nobody gets to be the star as it changes every game.  Looking for guards won't help, because the ones brought in will either fit the individual first mode or develop it quick in these surroundings.  The talent is undeniable, and that is what enabled the team to win at times as individual players would go off.  But it was also why they had no answer for teams at other times.  Terry is the exact opposite of Haskins.  Haskins built teams using decent players, not stars.  They sometimes became stars because of the team.  Terry gathers excellent players that become less than average because they aren't a team.

Athletes versus basketball players

Haskins put together basketball players, made them better basketball players and built a team with them.  Barbee used a combination of talented basketball players and athletes.  But, he knew what he was doing, and made a team with them that played to their strengths.  Each of them complimented the other.  The basketball players would push the ball and take advantage of defensive weaknesses and mistakes, and when they missed, athletes crashed the boards and put the ball in or kicked it out to the basketball players.  I'm not trying to rag on Terry, but can you imagine what would have happened with Barbee's team with Terry coaching them.  It would have looked a lot like Terry's team last season only worse probably.

The next time the Miners basketball players take to floor it still won't be a team.  It will be a different collection of players.  But the results will be the same frustrating results.  If you let me coach the same players the results probably would be about the same, maybe a little better because I would at least introduce the concept of "team" and sit the individuals not willing to get that in their heads.  I might end up playing walk-ons  with the individuals abandoning like rats from a sinking ship-back to wherever they came from when they came waltzing in. But give me 5 walk-ons playing team basketball over five selfish wannabes and my team would beat the stars, with some time.

[SisyphusMiner]

Athletes versus basketball players
  I'm not trying to rag on Terry, but can you imagine what would have happened with Barbee's team with Terry coaching them.  It would have looked a lot like Terry's team last season only worse probably.

That's legit.  It's also fair to ask what results last year's team would have had with Barbee at the helm.  Or Doc.  Or Gillispie.

[kyyote]

Athletes versus basketball players
  I'm not trying to rag on Terry, but can you imagine what would have happened with Barbee's team with Terry coaching them.  It would have looked a lot like Terry's team last season only worse probably.

That's legit.  It's also fair to ask what results last year's team would have had with Barbee at the helm.  Or Doc.  Or Gillispie.

Oh my!  I wish I had thought of that.  I honestly believe that with any of the three, the Miners might just have won the conference.  Dominating it.  I'm not as sure about Barbee as Doc or Gillespie because of Barbee's style of play.  Probably.  But with Doc or Gillespie they would have played as a team or not have been sitting in The Don. 

[SisyphusMiner]

And I think that answer tells us everything we need to know about CRTs coaching abilities.  If you can't coach you damn well better be able to recruit.  I'm not convinced that Tarkanian even knew what a basketball was, but he could sure recruit