mmmm...... humble pie

December 09, 2012, 09:15:32 AM kyyote - Use the board. 

[UTEP_Ralph]

For all those who thought we had a good team (including myself) here is a slice of humble pie! It's delicious!

[shyminer]

They are still going to be an average team which is better than another 4 or 5 win team. I can see 7 possible wins. Just beat Tulane, which everyone else has pretty much killed. Tulsa just murdered them. If they find a way to lose against Tulane that might just kill their confidence as a whole... this next one is very important. We all knew UAB was dangerous...I was surprised to see that the Offense didn't get going at ALL, the defense was out there too long and it showed in the 4th.

[clearwater]

5-2 isn't a good record? For UTEP standards thats pretty good and this is one of the better teams ever here at UTEP. The D played very well for about 3 quarters, the offense had an absolutely horrid game, but I blame injuries and adjustements to the O-Line. It was a bad game all around, but still. Virginia Tech lost to James Madison and they are currently number 1 in the ACC, so please we are still a decent team. Beat Tulane!

[Minermojo]

I say that we neeeeeeed an OC but terribly. Nepotism sucks!   

[UTEP_Ralph]

I understand that this was a game that UTEP, on paper, should have won. But i just cannot believe that a 1-4 team gave UTEP such a hard time. I mean, our defense was missing tackles, they kept running the same play over and over again and the Defense did nothing to stop their RB in the 4th Quarter.

Now my question is, how does the team intend on beating a descent opponent on the road this season, or the post-season? I'm just really frustrated that we settle for less... I have always thought that UTEP fans deserve more than a descent team. Look at Boise St. as an example, that's where I would someday like to see UTEP football. But if the team and coaching staff keeps feeding us BS its never gonna happen.

[kyyote]

UTEP_Ralph, and others,
I have heard (or read) people say this for years, and I must admit, I have tried to figure out what it would be that is seen as the meriting, qualities, actions, or situation, that would make us worthy, deserving, of a better team.  About the only thing I have been able to come up with is, long suffering, and I don't know that that makes us deserving.  So, I am going to ask a serious question, and it isn't intended to be any kind of attack.  I am just curious to know what it is that gives people the feeling that we deserve more.  As I understand the word, and I checked to be sure I wasn't wrong on this;

Do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).  

to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation

to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital

So, I am hoping that some of those who feel this way will list some of the reasons for us deserving better teams.  I look forward to the contributions to aid me in my understanding of this.  I have to admit that I sometimes see reasons for the exact opposite.  Maybe the respones could be expanded to include both.  But, I really am interested in the reasons for our deserving better.

[ronstr300]

dude...are you serious??

we deserve better because idiot stull asks for our hard earned money. its as easy as that! if you are going to ask us to support, and give our money to you, then you should put a product on the floor worthy of our (my) money. period

you wanna put shit out there....dont expect our support. or money... 

[kyyote]

dude...are you serious??

we deserve better because idiot stull asks for our hard earned money. its as easy as that! if you are going to ask us to support, and give our money to you, then you should put a product on the floor worthy of our (my) money. period

you wanna put shit out there....dont expect our support. or money... 

OK, ticket money.  I think eveyone in FBS football charges money to watch their teams play.  Is our money better, or more,  to give us reason to deserve better,  teams than them?  I really don't know, but I will try and get some numbers to answer this question.  I will say that the tickets I bought in Albuquerque cost I think, about ten dollars a ticket more than my UTEP tickets, and were not in as good a section as my UTEP tickets.  I wouldn't stake my life on it, but I think concessions were more, too.  I believe the $5.50 soda at UTEP cost me $6.50 at the Lobos' stadium.

[USAFminersfan]

dude...are you serious??

we deserve better because idiot stull asks for our hard earned money. its as easy as that! if you are going to ask us to support, and give our money to you, then you should put a product on the floor worthy of our (my) money. period

you wanna put shit out there....dont expect our support. or money... 

lol, true to El Paso way of thinking. You pay shit to watch football games. In fact, UTEP is probably one of the best places to watch a football game financially.

If anything, the price they charge is perfect in relation to the product on the field.

[MinerGold]

Kyyote,

   a couple of thoughts that cross my mind. UTEP's budget for all sports is just a little over $20 million a year, that's peanuts. Football raises the money to fund women's sports, men's golf, track and field etc...etc... El Paso is not Dallas or Houston where money floats around freely. The average income for working couple is around $24,000 a year. When fans do purchase tickets they do feel entitled to a winning program because fans are using there hard earned money to support UTEP.

    Secondly, part of the problem in my opinion is Bob Stull. Yes, he has achieved some success but has a long way to go. He doesn't acknowledge the middles class families who earn $80,000 to $200,000 a year, it's beneath him. He alienates himself from the fans with an arrogance. I have seen him blow off fans who have approached him and try to start a friendly conversation with him.

    Third point. Attendance is down because he is charging to much for general admission at $20 a ticket. That may not be a lot of money to many of us here however it's a lot of money to the average El Pasoan. It would cost $80 for a family of four. That does not include parking, soft drinks or any food for the kids. Stull has priced UTEP football to high for the average family. Have you noticed that the end zone is not close to being filled at the games? If he would have lowered the pricing in the end zone it would bring more fans to the game. You bring more fans they spend more money. True fact, in basketball when UTEP held the CBI games in El Paso the concessions made more money than they ever had in the the history of UTEP basketball games. Why? Tickets were affordable each game sold out and fans spent money at the games.

   UTEP needs money to take sports to the next level and pay our coaches a fair salary. It's embarrassing what we pay Price and Floyd. The fans feel they deserve better because they try hard to support UTEP. Stull needs a huge dose of HUMILITY. At the beginning of the season Dian Natalico said it very clearly, UTEP needs to win in football because wining brings out fans. Winning generates revenue for the university.

Just my dos centavos!

[MinerGold]

One last thing, if Stull was smart he would lower the price of general admision for the last two games. Let's fill the Sun Bowl, support the team and generate revenue for the university. I do feel a $10 to $15 ticket would bring out fans. What does UTEP have to lose by lowering the price for the last two games? Stull ego wouldn't allow it.

[UTEP_Ralph]

UTEP_Ralph, and others,
I have heard (or read) people say this for years, and I must admit, I have tried to figure out what it would be that is seen as the meriting, qualities, actions, or situation, that would make us worthy, deserving, of a better team.  About the only thing I have been able to come up with is, long suffering, and I don't know that that makes us deserving.  So, I am going to ask a serious question, and it isn't intended to be any kind of attack.  I am just curious to know what it is that gives people the feeling that we deserve more.  As I understand the word, and I checked to be sure I wasn't wrong on this;

Do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).  

to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation

to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital

So, I am hoping that some of those who feel this way will list some of the reasons for us deserving better teams.  I look forward to the contributions to aid me in my understanding of this.  I have to admit that I sometimes see reasons for the exact opposite.  Maybe the respones could be expanded to include both.  But, I really am interested in the reasons for our deserving better.

Ok Kyyote, I don't want to seem insulting to anyone but it seems like UTEP will keep lingering in mediocrity because we as fans don't expect more from the team. It seems like we defend the team for being mediocre....

[kyyote]

I did some checking.  This is what I found.  I don't claim that it is perfect.  It was just a quick check;
My season tickets are $20 each or $120, I think for the six home games.  I tried to compare the price for tickets in the same general location at other places.

ECU  C-USA Games $40 $25 youth
UCF I think my season tickets that cost me $120 would cost $195+$100 Gold Knight Club donation.
So. Miss.  $35 for my $20 ticket
UAB $30  $20 GA
Marshall  $185 for my equivalent season tickets
Memphis  $30
SMU  $120+250 donation
Houston   $30-$35 I think
Tulsa  $25 End Zone $15 Fam Pack $195
Rice  $130
Tulane  $30

I think our prices are the lowest in C-USA.  Not sure, but that's what it looks like from my quick check.  So if ticket price is what is used to determine what we deserve, we are way ahead of the game.

[MinerGold]

UTEP_Ralph, and others,
I have heard (or read) people say this for years, and I must admit, I have tried to figure out what it would be that is seen as the meriting, qualities, actions, or situation, that would make us worthy, deserving, of a better team.  About the only thing I have been able to come up with is, long suffering, and I don't know that that makes us deserving.  So, I am going to ask a serious question, and it isn't intended to be any kind of attack.  I am just curious to know what it is that gives people the feeling that we deserve more.  As I understand the word, and I checked to be sure I wasn't wrong on this;

Do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).  

to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation

to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital

So, I am hoping that some of those who feel this way will list some of the reasons for us deserving better teams.  I look forward to the contributions to aid me in my understanding of this.  I have to admit that I sometimes see reasons for the exact opposite.  Maybe the respones could be expanded to include both.  But, I really am interested in the reasons for our deserving better.

Ok Kyyote, I don't want to seem insulting to anyone but it seems like UTEP will keep lingering in mediocrity because we as fans don't expect more from the team. It seems like we defend the team for being mediocre....

Fans need to do two things, 1 donate more money and secondly demand more from the program.

[MinerGold]

I did some checking.  This is what I found.  I don't claim that it is perfect.  It was just a quick check;
My season tickets are $20 each or $120, I think for the six home games.  I tried to compare the price for tickets in the same general location at other places.

ECU  C-USA Games $40 $25 youth
UCF I think my season tickets that cost me $120 would cost $195+$100 Gold Knight Club donation.
So. Miss.  $35 for my $20 ticket
UAB $30  $20 GA
Marshall  $185 for my equivalent season tickets
Memphis  $30
SMU  $120+250 donation
Houston   $30-$35 I think
Tulsa  $25 End Zone $15 Fam Pack $195
Rice  $130
Tulane  $30

I think our prices are the lowest in C-USA.  Not sure, but that's what it looks like from my quick check.  So if ticket price is what is used to determine what we deserve, we are way ahead of the game.

Kyyote,

now check the average income from those cities and compare it to the $24,000 a year from El Paso. Houston, Tulsa, Dallas, Memphis and other cities average income is a lot more that $24K a year! We are not compaing apples to apples.

[kyyote]

Kyyote,

   a couple of thoughts that cross my mind. UTEP's budget for all sports is just a little over $20 million a year, that's peanuts. Football raises the money to fund women's sports, men's golf, track and field etc...etc... El Paso is not Dallas or Houston where money floats around freely. The average income for working couple is around $24,000 a year. When fans do purchase tickets they do feel entitled to a winning program because fans are using there hard earned money to support UTEP.
    Secondly, part of the problem in my opinion is Bob Stull. Yes, he has achieved some success but has a long way to go. He doesn't acknowledge the middles class families who earn $80,000 to $200,000 a year, it's beneath him. He alienates himself from the fans with an arrogance. I have seen him blow off fans who have approached him and try to start a friendly conversation with him.

    Third point. Attendance is down because he is charging to much for general admission at $20 a ticket. That may not be a lot of money to many of us here however it's a lot of money to the average El Pasoan. It would cost $80 for a family of four. That does not include parking, soft drinks or any food for the kids. Stull has priced UTEP football to high for the average family. Have you noticed that the end zone is not close to being filled at the games? If he would have lowered the pricing in the end zone it would bring more fans to the game. You bring more fans they spend more money. True fact, in basketball when UTEP held the CBI games in El Paso the concessions made more money than they ever had in the the history of UTEP basketball games. Why? Tickets were affordable each game sold out and fans spent money at the games.

   UTEP needs money to take sports to the next level and pay our coaches a fair salary. It's embarrassing what we pay Price and Floyd. The fans feel they deserve better because they try hard to support UTEP. Stull needs a huge dose of HUMILITY. At the beginning of the season Dian Natalico said it very clearly, UTEP needs to win in football because wining brings out fans. Winning generates revenue for the university.

Just my dos centavos!

The old our prices are to high, and we're too poor, argument!  So, the ticket prices reason for us deserving more, should include a poor folks discount.  Maybe we should be in a poor folks league, where life would be more fair.  Sports doesn't divide the points teams score based on income.  Gee, too bad.  We could have been spotted 40 points to play Texas.   The Bowie Bears should get points when they play Coronado, or Franklin, or Montwood.  Yeah deserving better teams should be like handicapped, subsidized if you will, to level the playing field.  Come on, I asked why El Paso, the fans, whatever, deserve better teams.  I was told because tickets cost money.  Now, somehow we get to deserve more even though we pay less, because we are poor.  OK.  I will put money as a reason, and include that we should have a special rate on deserving because we are poor.  Or we can just say that we beat a richer team.  Hooray!!  The Owls pay more and should then, deserve a better team, but we beat them anyway.  Us poor folks kicked their rich folks asses.  Cool.

[MinerGold]

Kyyote,

   a couple of thoughts that cross my mind. UTEP's budget for all sports is just a little over $20 million a year, that's peanuts. Football raises the money to fund women's sports, men's golf, track and field etc...etc... El Paso is not Dallas or Houston where money floats around freely. The average income for working couple is around $24,000 a year. When fans do purchase tickets they do feel entitled to a winning program because fans are using there hard earned money to support UTEP.
    Secondly, part of the problem in my opinion is Bob Stull. Yes, he has achieved some success but has a long way to go. He doesn't acknowledge the middles class families who earn $80,000 to $200,000 a year, it's beneath him. He alienates himself from the fans with an arrogance. I have seen him blow off fans who have approached him and try to start a friendly conversation with him.

    Third point. Attendance is down because he is charging to much for general admission at $20 a ticket. That may not be a lot of money to many of us here however it's a lot of money to the average El Pasoan. It would cost $80 for a family of four. That does not include parking, soft drinks or any food for the kids. Stull has priced UTEP football to high for the average family. Have you noticed that the end zone is not close to being filled at the games? If he would have lowered the pricing in the end zone it would bring more fans to the game. You bring more fans they spend more money. True fact, in basketball when UTEP held the CBI games in El Paso the concessions made more money than they ever had in the the history of UTEP basketball games. Why? Tickets were affordable each game sold out and fans spent money at the games.

   UTEP needs money to take sports to the next level and pay our coaches a fair salary. It's embarrassing what we pay Price and Floyd. The fans feel they deserve better because they try hard to support UTEP. Stull needs a huge dose of HUMILITY. At the beginning of the season Dian Natalico said it very clearly, UTEP needs to win in football because wining brings out fans. Winning generates revenue for the university.

Just my dos centavos!

The old our prices are to high, and we're too poor, argument!  So, the ticket prices reason for us deserving more, should include a poor folks discount.  Maybe we should be in a poor folks league, where life would be more fair.  Sports doesn't divide the points teams score based on income.  Gee, too bad.  We could have been spotted 40 points to play Texas.

Kyyote, you can't agrue facts. I have given some solutions, I'm not saying they will work. However it worked for the CBI. I have had season tickets in section 5 gold section for the last 8 years. I'm not complaing about ticket prices. If you read my post correctly I said lower just the "general admision tickets only". So I guess you would rather have a half empty end zone than a full one?  Jim Paul made a living out of affordable baseball and getting fans through the gates. He would make his money on food and drinks, smart man. Heck he would give away tickets to get fans in the door. Because he knew if they showed up they would spend money. No, I'm not saying to give tickets away. Stull could learn a lot from Jim Paul but his ego wouldn't allow it. What is so hard to understand about that? He sold the diablos for millions and laughed to the bank!

[MinerGold]

Kyyote, Rice has a ton of money but anyone with a half a brain realizes that the academic standards are lets say a lot higher than UTEP.

So we beat a poor team, go ahead and pound your chest.

[UTEP_Ralph]

Kyyote,

   a couple of thoughts that cross my mind. UTEP's budget for all sports is just a little over $20 million a year, that's peanuts. Football raises the money to fund women's sports, men's golf, track and field etc...etc... El Paso is not Dallas or Houston where money floats around freely. The average income for working couple is around $24,000 a year. When fans do purchase tickets they do feel entitled to a winning program because fans are using there hard earned money to support UTEP.
    Secondly, part of the problem in my opinion is Bob Stull. Yes, he has achieved some success but has a long way to go. He doesn't acknowledge the middles class families who earn $80,000 to $200,000 a year, it's beneath him. He alienates himself from the fans with an arrogance. I have seen him blow off fans who have approached him and try to start a friendly conversation with him.

    Third point. Attendance is down because he is charging to much for general admission at $20 a ticket. That may not be a lot of money to many of us here however it's a lot of money to the average El Pasoan. It would cost $80 for a family of four. That does not include parking, soft drinks or any food for the kids. Stull has priced UTEP football to high for the average family. Have you noticed that the end zone is not close to being filled at the games? If he would have lowered the pricing in the end zone it would bring more fans to the game. You bring more fans they spend more money. True fact, in basketball when UTEP held the CBI games in El Paso the concessions made more money than they ever had in the the history of UTEP basketball games. Why? Tickets were affordable each game sold out and fans spent money at the games.

   UTEP needs money to take sports to the next level and pay our coaches a fair salary. It's embarrassing what we pay Price and Floyd. The fans feel they deserve better because they try hard to support UTEP. Stull needs a huge dose of HUMILITY. At the beginning of the season Dian Natalico said it very clearly, UTEP needs to win in football because wining brings out fans. Winning generates revenue for the university.

Just my dos centavos!

The old our prices are to high, and we're too poor, argument!  So, the ticket prices reason for us deserving more, should include a poor folks discount.  Maybe we should be in a poor folks league, where life would be more fair.  Sports doesn't divide the points teams score based on income.  Gee, too bad.  We could have been spotted 40 points to play Texas.

Kyyote, you can't agrue facts. I have given some solutions, I'm not saying they will work. However it worked for the CBI. I have had season tickets in section 5 gold section for the last 8 years. I'm not complaing about ticket prices. If you read my post correctly I said lower just the "general admision tickets only". So I guess you would rather have a half empty end zone than a full one?   Jim Paul made a living out of affordable baseball and getting fans through the gates. He would make his money on food and drinks, smart man. Heck he would give away tickets to get fans in the door. Because he knew if they showed up they would spend money. No, I'm not saying to give tickets away. Stull could learn a lot from Jim Paul but his ego wouldn't allow it. What is so hard to understand about that? He sold the diablos for millions and laughed to the bank!

Agreed!

[kyyote]

Actually, I asked for reasons why we DESERVE better teams, and I was given because we pay for tickets.  I still haven't heard why that separates us from all of the other people that pay ticket prices.  Don't they deserve better teams, too.  Then, when I pointed out that our ticket prices are lower than others, so if that is what we use for the reason why we DESERVE better teams, it would stand to my reasoning that in fact the other teams deserve even better, better teams.  Then, that argument went into some kind of per capita reason for us to deserve better even though our tickets cost less.  Get back to why we DESERVE better teams.  So far I have been given one reason.  Because we buy tickets.  Maybe it's just me, but when everyone else buys tickets too, the deserving should still be equal, not is better.  

[MinerMaestro]

Actually, I asked for reasons why we DESERVE better teams, and I was given because we pay for tickets.  I still haven't heard why that separates us from all of the other people that pay ticket prices.  Don't they deserve better teams, too.  Then, when I pointed out that our ticket prices are lower than others, so if that is what we use for the reason why we DESERVE better teams, it would stand to my reasoning that in fact the other teams deserve even better, better teams.  Then, that argument went into some kind of per capita reason for us to deserve better even though our tickets cost less.  Get back to why we DESERVE better teams.  So far I have been given one reason.  Because we buy tickets.  Maybe it's just me, but when everyone else buys tickets too, the deserving should still be equal, not is better.  

Did you buy your last car expecting it to be shitty or did you, at least, expect to get what you paid for it?  You mostly thought you got a good deal in terms of perceived performance and comfort relative to the price you paid for it.  So all of this existentialist rationalizing that you're doing is merely deflecting the sad reality that while we want more support, it's not going to be there until this program becomes worthy, or as you say DESERVING, of OUR support. 

Orale!
 

[MinerGold]

Actually, I asked for reasons why we DESERVE better teams, and I was given because we pay for tickets.  I still haven't heard why that separates us from all of the other people that pay ticket prices.  Don't they deserve better teams, too.  Then, when I pointed out that our ticket prices are lower than others, so if that is what we use for the reason why we DESERVE better teams, it would stand to my reasoning that in fact the other teams deserve even better, better teams.  Then, that argument went into some kind of per capita reason for us to deserve better even though our tickets cost less.  Get back to why we DESERVE better teams.  So far I have been given one reason.  Because we buy tickets.  Maybe it's just me, but when everyone else buys tickets too, the deserving should still be equal, not is better.  

You haven't given any one any reason yourself. I'm assuming that you don't think we deserve better.

[kyyote]

UTEP_Ralph, and others,
I have heard (or read) people say this for years, and I must admit, I have tried to figure out what it would be that is seen as the meriting, qualities, actions, or situation, that would make us worthy, deserving, of a better team.  About the only thing I have been able to come up with is, long suffering, and I don't know that that makes us deserving.  So, I am going to ask a serious question, and it isn't intended to be any kind of attack.  I am just curious to know what it is that gives people the feeling that we deserve more.  As I understand the word, and I checked to be sure I wasn't wrong on this;

Do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).  

to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation

to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital

So, I am hoping that some of those who feel this way will list some of the reasons for us deserving better teams.  I look forward to the contributions to aid me in my understanding of this.  I have to admit that I sometimes see reasons for the exact opposite.  Maybe the respones could be expanded to include both.  But, I really am interested in the reasons for our deserving better.

This is what I wrote.  I just wanted someone to clarify to me why we deserve better.  So far I have gotten because we pay for tickets.  To me that might indicate that we deserve to see a team, but I don't see where it should deserve better teams.  Then, it got into the relative cost of living in other cities, and I pointed out that if buying tickets is why we deserve better, then so should all of those teams, and if the amount paid has anything to do with it, then they deserve better, better teams.  I'm supposedly the one getting all off track, but all I asked was for reasons to justify why we deserve better team.  So far, I have been given one reason.  Personnally, I don't think because we buy tickets gives us a reason to deserve better. 

Actually, I asked for reasons why we DESERVE better teams, and I was given because we pay for tickets.  I still haven't heard why that separates us from all of the other people that pay ticket prices.  Don't they deserve better teams, too.  Then, when I pointed out that our ticket prices are lower than others, so if that is what we use for the reason why we DESERVE better teams, it would stand to my reasoning that in fact the other teams deserve even better, better teams.  Then, that argument went into some kind of per capita reason for us to deserve better even though our tickets cost less.  Get back to why we DESERVE better teams.  So far I have been given one reason.  Because we buy tickets.  Maybe it's just me, but when everyone else buys tickets too, the deserving should still be equal, not is better. 

Did you buy your last car expecting it to be shitty or did you, at least, expect to get what you paid for it?  You mostly thought you got a good deal in terms of perceived performance and comfort relative to the price you paid for it.  So all of this existentialist rationalizing that you're doing is merely deflecting the sad reality that while we want more support, it's not going to be there until this program becomes worthy, or as you say DESERVING, of OUR support. 

Orale!
 

If I buy a cheap used car do I have a right to deserve better?  If I buy a ticket to a game, do I deserve better?  And, if buying is the reason, (Which I don't think it is) to deserve better, then would it not stand to reason that if I spent more for my car, and bought a new car, wouldn't I have the right to deserve a better car?  Teams aren't cars, by the way.  But the ones that people pay more for, usually are the better teams.  But if they are competing with other equally expensive teams, there is no guarantee that the results will relate to the money spent.

So, get back to explaining why we deserve better teams, please.

[UTEP_Ralph]

WE DESERVE BETTER BECAUSE EL PASO IS TIRED OF A MEDIOCRE PROGRAM!

[UTEPDefense]

The Owls pay more and should then, deserve a better team, but we beat them anyway.  Us poor folks kicked their rich folks asses.  Cool.

I don't want to get into this argument, but I will only say that Kyyotes Rice argument actually does not hold any water.  It does not hold water because when directly comparing the 2, Rice fans have been given much more than UTEP fans:

- Rice has beat UTEP 4 out of the last 5 years(which is pretty damn dominant.)
- Rice has been to 2 Bowl Games since UTEP has been to it's last Bowl Game.)
- Rice has won a Bowl game within the past 2 years(in which UTEP has not done that in the past 50 years.)
- Rice has even beat Houston(their big in-city rival) this year and 2 of the last 3 years.

I am not saying that Kyyote is wrong overall, just that using Rice to try and justify his argument is wrong, because using Rice actually supports the fact that they are paying more and receiving more.  By comparison their fans have been given more...much more than UTEP fans have been given!

I also think that you guys are missing the point.  I don't think it's so much a case of people feeling like they "deserve" more, I think it's more of a situation that the fans feel that UTEP is not reaching it's full potential.  In any scenario it's hard to watch someone not reach their potential: in the classroom as a Teacher, in the workplace as a Boss, and on the field as a fan!  These fans have waited for this year; they've waited for us to have a 5th year QB(4 year starter), a star 5th year RB, yet we have given Mike Price 6 years and we are still seeing UTEP lose in the exact same manner, to the exact same type of bad team, with the exact same type of mistakes(8 penalties, bad snaps, soft football(not punching the ball in on 1st & goal from the 4)) as the prior years.  This was supposed to be the pay-off year to make up for all of the prior years of frustration, all of those BCS team blowouts were supposed to battle harden us, so they have the right to be upset now that we are losing to a 1-4 team.  I don't think that has anything to do with people feeling like they are "deserving."

[UTEPDefense]

Kyyote, I am not trying to argue with you, only to answer your question(since you haven't been given a good variety of answers.)

The answer is simple:  UTEP fans feel like they deserved to beat UAB, because UTEP is a better team than UAB.....plain and simple!  Anybody who watched that game saw that UTEP was the better team, but we lost(and it really wasn't close, we lost by 15.)  

[MinerGold]

I don't understand Kyyotes question at all. I guess we should sell kyyote a 1974 Chevy truck to go hunting with. The truck doesn't have a motor. Why should Kyyote deserve better?

[kyyote]

WE DESERVE BETTER BECAUSE EL PASO IS TIRED OF A MEDIOCRE PROGRAM!

Reason #2  We deserve better because we are tired.

Kyyote, I am not trying to argue with you, only to answer your question(since you haven't been given a good variety of answers.)

The answer is simple:  UTEP fans feel like they deserved to beat UAB, because UTEP is a better team than UAB.....plain and simple!  Anybody who watched that game saw that UTEP was the better team, but we lost(and it really wasn't close, we lost by 15.)   

One game!  As I said, I've heard this we deserve better, for years.  So I'm speaking in terms of years, not individual games.  But, I think we are making progress.  Deserving better seems to be defined in relation to how much we pay.  Progress.
Because we are tired of being mediocre.  So does every mediocre team deserve better, or do they have to get tired of it first?

The Owls pay more and should then, deserve a better team, but we beat them anyway.  Us poor folks kicked their rich folks asses.  Cool.

I don't want to get into this argument, but I will only say that Kyyotes Rice argument actually does not hold any water.  It does not hold water because when directly comparing the 2, Rice fans have been given much more than UTEP fans:

- Rice has beat UTEP 4 out of the last 5 years(which is pretty damn dominant.)
- Rice has been to 2 Bowl Games since UTEP has been to it's last Bowl Game.)
- Rice has won a Bowl game within the past 2 years(in which UTEP has not done that in the past 50 years.)
- Rice has even beat Houston(their big in-city rival) this year and 2 of the last 3 years.

I am not saying that Kyyote is wrong overall, just that using Rice to try and justify his argument is wrong, because using Rice actually supports the fact that they are paying more and receiving more.  By comparison their fans have been given more...much more than UTEP fans have been given!

Actually, I was sarcastically using Rice to point out that El Paso's per capita income should not be a factor in our deserving better.

I also think that you guys are missing the point.  I don't think it's so much a case of people feeling like they "deserve" more, I think it's more of a situation that the fans feel that UTEP is not reaching it's full potential.  In any scenario it's hard to watch someone not reach their potential: in the classroom as a Teacher, in the workplace as a Boss, and on the field as a fan!  These fans have waited for this year; they've waited for us to have a 5th year QB(4 year starter), a star 5th year RB, yet we have given Mike Price 6 years and we are still seeing UTEP lose in the exact same manner, to the exact same type of bad team, with the exact same type of mistakes(8 penalties, bad snaps, soft football(not punching the ball in on 1st & goal from the 4)) as the prior years.  This was supposed to be the pay-off year to make up for all of the prior years of frustration, all of those BCS team blowouts were supposed to battle harden us, so they have the right to be upset now that we are losing to a 1-4 team.  I don't think that has anything to do with people feeling like they are "deserving."  But, I was asking about deserving, you see.

I was most specifically asking about why I have heard for years that we deserve better.

So, here are the two reasons I have gotten so far.
1.  We pay x amount, and eventually we got it down to we aren't getting value for our money spent.  At this point, it at least makes sense.  I think it could be argued that we are getting what we pay for.  But, I wasn't really looking to argue the point.  I was just interested in the reasons for feeling we deserve better.  Eliminating all of the per capita relativity and other stuff about how to generate more money, which I don't see having anything to do with deserving.  I guess if you feel like poor people deserve more product for their $1 than rich people deserve for their $1 that makes sense.  I don't think that way.

2.  We are tired of being mediocre.  I don't really know what to say about this.If I'm tired of being broke, do I deserve more money?

[Blitzace2005]

EP deserves a better program because they demand one  - and quite simply, the Mike Price brand is damaged goods. Same ole, same ole;and you think this year is bad?  Just wait until next year and see that freshman-laden pathetic offense against UCF, ECU, SO. Miss, and the likes.

[kyyote]

So, here are the three reasons I have gotten so far.
1.  We pay x amount, and eventually we got it down to we aren't getting value for our money spent.  At this point, it at least makes sense.  I think it could be argued that we are getting what we pay for.  But, I wasn't really looking to argue the point.  I was just interested in the reasons for feeling we deserve better.  Eliminating all of the per capita relativity and other stuff about how to generate more money, which I don't see having anything to do with deserving.  I guess if you feel like poor people deserve more product for their $1 than rich people deserve for their $1 that makes sense.  I don't think that way.

2.  We are tired of being mediocre.  I don't really know what to say about this.If I'm tired of being broke, do I deserve more money?

3.  Because the people demand it.

[Maniac]

Ky, are you saying you're ok w mediocrity?

I believe that we don't deserve anything, but we expect our program to go out and compete w the best. I've brought it up many times, as I'm sure others have, but Boise st. Has been able to blow up the NCAA in their short history while we have remained stagnant.  Nothing is more frustrating to me, but then again it seems the mediocre tag will always haunt our football program.

Price may just be done here, but who are we to replace him with?  If we keep paying peanuts to coaches we will never be anything more than either a launching pad for coaches or a place for washed up coaches who have made too big/many mistakes to coach a "big" school.

[ronstr300]

Ky, you may just be too close to the forrest and cant see the trees. I know the players and coaching staff have become good friends to you. I also know you do realize they DO read your message board, therefore you sorta have to defend them to an extent in order to continue to receive the special perks you currently get. I understand that.

BUT......to imply we dont deserve a winning program is simply nonsense. Anyone that pays for a product deserves something in return. We dont pay for tickets to just watch a game, we are paying to support and chear on OUR team. Therefore, we want/expect/deserve wins for the money we pay.  If I were to go to a Nebraska/OU game, I wouldnt care who won, therefore I wouldnt "deserve" anything except to enjoy a game, good or bad. Supporting our school/team is different.

I have been on the "fire mike price" wagaon off and on for a few years. I am not there this year......yet. We have been winning at home and that I enjoy. I personally dont care if only 20k show up next game. It will make it easier to get in and out of the game...LOL

Let me turn this around on you. Why does this team and coaching staff deserve our support financially? Shouldnt they be happy enough playing for themselves and pride? Why do they need us?

[MinerGold]

So, here are the three reasons I have gotten so far.
 I guess if you feel like poor people deserve more product for their $1 than rich people deserve for their $1 that makes sense.  I don't think that way.

3.  Because the people demand it.

Who said that and what are you smoking? I never said that. So far I see you criticizing but you haven't answered your own question. Sometimes I wonder if you think at all.

[MinerGold]

 
2.  We are tired of being mediocre.  I don't really know what to say about this.If I'm tired of being broke, do I deserve more money?3.  

If I was broke. I would do two things. Get an education and secondly work harder. I would fight like hell to provide for my family. Hard work produces results.


Your line of thinking promotes food stamps. "It is what it is" thinking. Secondly you said, you shouldn't use the ananlogy of cars and a team and that is exactly what you did! I have offered posititve solutions. Sadly you seem closed minded. Say it aint so! I gave you thoughts on how to improve the program and not knock it. What have you given to the topic? If the team is not tired of losing decade after decade I don't know what will motivate the team.

[kyyote]

So, here are the three reasons I have gotten so far.
 I guess if you feel like poor people deserve more product for their $1 than rich people deserve for their $1 that makes sense.  I don't think that way.

3.  Because the people demand it.

Who said that and what are you smoking? I never said that. So far I see you criticizing but you haven't answered your own question. Sometimes I wonder if you think at all.

"So far I see you criticizing but you haven't answered your own question."
 
So, when you ask people questions, you answer your own questions?  And you are wondering about me?
I asked for reasons why we deserve a better team, and you give me thoughts on how to improve the program.  And you are wondering about me?
I never have to wonder at all, with you.  

We are tired of being mediocre.  That was a reason given.  Not by me, you understand?  I questioned that line of reasoning with, "If I'm tired of being broke, do I deserve more money?"  Then you, I think, were arguing my point by saying you would do something to deserve more money.  That's pretty much what I was getting at, but thanks for spelling it out.  I thought he could figure it out without your help, but thanks.

So, here are the three reasons I have gotten so far.
 I guess if you feel like poor people deserve more product for their $1 than rich people deserve for their $1 that makes sense.  I don't think that way.

3.  Because the people demand it.

Who said that and what are you smoking? I never said that. So far I see you criticizing but you haven't answered your own question. Sometimes I wonder if you think at all.

You brought in the per capita incomes.  You seemed to be arguing that because we earn less, we should be able to deserve to be able to pay less and expect as much as those who pay more.  But, I will admit that you logic and answers do leave me scratching my head sometimes, so I don't know, I was just guessing to try and make some sense out of what you said.

Ky, you may just be too close to the forrest and cant see the trees. I know the players and coaching staff have become good friends to you. I also know you do realize they DO read your message board, therefore you sorta have to defend them to an extent in order to continue to receive the special perks you currently get. I understand that.

This is pure bullshit.  If I don't whine and throw a tantrum, it isn't because they are my friends or of any perks.  When my children were babies they threw tantrums when they didn't get their way.  They were babies.  They didn't see the reasons for them not getting their way, nor did they care to.  They were babies.  I watched the UAB game, and was sick to my stomach.  I thought about the reasons why UAB was running it up our team's ass.  I cussed like a sailor.  But, I didn't think we didn't deserve it.  I didn't think we deserved to win, just because I pay my cable bill.  By your definition, the people that buy tickets deserve to have a team that wins definition, every week one half of the country is getting ripped off.
BUT......to imply we dont deserve a winning program is simply nonsense(I have never implied that.  I have asked why we deserve a winning program.  That is very different). Anyone that pays for a product deserves something in return. We dont pay for tickets to just watch a game, we are paying to support and chear on OUR team(you are right.  You pay to watch a game, and I guess you can include in that the right to cheer and support). Therefore, we want(want is fine)/expect(really?  Did you really expect us to beat Texas because you bought a ticket?)/deserve(and here we are back to my question of deserve)  wins for the money we pay.  If I were to go to a Nebraska/OU game, I wouldnt care who won, therefore I wouldnt "deserve" anything except to enjoy a game, good or bad(here you finally figured it out.  Just because UTEP is the team you follow doesn't mean they deserve to win). Supporting our school/team is different.

Maniac,
Ky, are you saying you're ok w mediocrity?

I believe that we don't deserve anything  You believe that we don't deserve anything(Thank God, someone else said it!).  Are you saying your OK with mediocrity?  You do see that they are not connected, right?

[MinerFire]

WE DESERVE BETTER BECAUSE EL PASO IS TIRED OF A MEDIOCRE PROGRAM!

Well then tell its medoicre fans to get off their asses, lose the excuses and come to a damn game... you cant complain about your football team when your stadium isnt half full...

[kyyote]

WE DESERVE BETTER BECAUSE EL PASO IS TIRED OF A MEDIOCRE PROGRAM!

Well then tell its medoicre fans to get off their asses, lose the excuses and come to a damn game... you cant complain about your football team when your stadium isnt half full...

I think we are making some headway, here.  MinerFire is proposing that something be done to merit deserving better.  Being tired doesn't merit a better team.

[minerjo]

WE DESERVE BETTER BECAUSE EL PASO IS TIRED OF A MEDIOCRE PROGRAM!

Well then tell its medoicre fans to get off their asses, lose the excuses and come to a damn game... you cant complain about your football team when your stadium isnt half full...

Well said!  People just don't understand that any program needs the publics support to survive and at least be mediocre.  The successful teams do things that the mediocre teams don't do, but it all starts with the fans and how much they care about the team.  I've gotta say that el paso could give a rats ass about UTEP football or for that matter, basketball!  I know very few hard core Miner fans in this city, but I know a whole lot more hardcore Cowboy fans who spends their hard earned money on Cowboy jerseys, hats, and even season tickets!  It amazes me how much money is dropped on the Cowboys but they could care less about their real team, UTEP.  The way I see it, I care about where I live, and therefore care about the local things that come with the city I live I .   I wear my UTEP jersey(apparel) with pride.  Do we deserve better, sure we do, but it is not going to be handed to us, we as a community must stop bithchin and do something about it.  The cowboys don't provide one thing to this city to deserve our support! This city needs to care about the football program, and until it does, we will continue our mediocrity.  After Price leaves, we will hire another assistant coach and the cycle continues.  By the way, I am a Cowboy fan, but I am a Miner fan first!!  

[MinerTim]

In truth I'm skimming.  Way too much discussion here on what is seemingly a simple topic.

But in Ky's defense, I only see him asking for reasoning.  I don't see him accepting a mediocre team.  I do always see him supporting his team.  Two totally different things.

[Haskins Fan]

Since everyone is talking about ticket sales and cost, lets also check the attendance on the conference.
Yes, the ticket sales on the other schools are high and their attendance is low. So what do you all
have to say about this!

Go miners...

[ronstr300]

WE DESERVE BETTER BECAUSE EL PASO IS TIRED OF A MEDIOCRE PROGRAM!

Well then tell its medoicre fans to get off their asses, lose the excuses and come to a damn game... you cant complain about your football team when your stadium isnt half full...

I think we are making some headway, here.  MinerFire is proposing that something be done to merit deserving better.  Being tired doesn't merit a better team.

that argument doesnt make sense in this whole discussion. if by this reasoning packing the sun bowl would merit deserving wins, where the hell were all the wins the past 4 years? so you guys are saying regardless of whether we win or not the average fan should get off their ass and go to the games? thats pure nonsense AGAIN. did you see the stands at UAB? Rice? Houston?SMU? fact is simply this, at mid-majors, the only way to get constant fan support is to win constantly.

yes, we deserve better than what we are getting. period! year 7 and its basically the same crapola! we DESERVE to have a good team every so often.  i personally have been to 90% of the home games for the last 25 years. yes, I DESERVE IT! I DESERVE some wins. regardless, my dumb ass will still be there, but stop knocking the rest of the city for not "supporting" the team. many reasons and factors come into play and most are valid to include the team REALLY isnt that good.

fans dont go support their team to see them lose. fans get upset at losses. after 4 straight losing season, i dont blame joe fan for not showing up until we do something.

and Ky, nothing personal homie, but you ARE extremely closed minded when it comes to the football team. dos pesos otra ves....

[MinerFire]

and that mentality is EXACTLY what is wrong with utep!! if you love the utep miners and their football team,,, you go and see them play through thick and thin... you dont only come when they are winning, thats what being a true fan is, supporting the team even when they are down, and trying to pick them up.... ENOUGH EXCUSES!! and there you go comparing us to other mid majors??" isnt that the whole point of this that we dont want to be a mid major team? so why compare us to rice/uab/houston/smu... why not compare us to see Tennesse, michigan, or teams that we want to strive to be like??? Why dont we look at their attendance?   If all we can get is... well my team sucks so i am not goin, i am above supporting a losing team, and look at the other teams who dont consistently win, their fans dont show up either.. so whats the point... then that is all we will ever be!! You can disagree with me as much as you want, but that is truth!! If we want a top notch team we have to sacrifice as fans and show up no excuses,, then and only then can we truly complain when our team sucks!! 

[Minermojo]

Why don't we try it the Obama way? THUNK! OH, OH, GET UP KY, someone get the doctor! He, he.   


At the beginning of the season in order to buy season tickets you take your W-2 form and the price of the tickets will be according to what you make. If you earn the going rate of 24k you get the cheapest and if you earn 30k it'll  be the next step up and so on. If you get tickets at the 50 yard line you can be of the elite and snubbed your nose at the po' folk in GA and especially at the Family Section.

J/K people. Just trying to make light of this problem.   

[ronstr300]

and that mentality is EXACTLY what is wrong with utep!! if you love the utep miners and their football team,,, you go and see them play through thick and thin... you dont only come when they are winning, thats what being a true fan is, supporting the team even when they are down, and trying to pick them up.... ENOUGH EXCUSES!! and there you go comparing us to other mid majors??" isnt that the whole point of this that we dont want to be a mid major team? so why compare us to rice/uab/houston/smu... why not compare us to see Tennesse, michigan, or teams that we want to strive to be like??? Why dont we look at their attendance?   If all we can get is... well my team sucks so i am not goin, i am above supporting a losing team, and look at the other teams who dont consistently win, their fans dont show up either.. so whats the point... then that is all we will ever be!! You can disagree with me as much as you want, but that is truth!! If we want a top notch team we have to sacrifice as fans and show up no excuses,, then and only then can we truly complain when our team sucks!! 

um..fire? did you miss the part where i have been to 90% of all home games over the past 25 years? the folks you are refering to as not being "true fans" are not on the message boards. thats the people who i was refering to. they will come when we win and prove ourselves. they dont bleed orange like we do. so, knowing they arent going to be there through it all, how do YOU propose getting them there?
and sorry fella, we ARE a mid-major. thats who we are. thats why i compare us to them. if we desire to be like Michagan, Texas, etc. and sell out every game, then we should be able to kick UABs ass, que no? and furthermore, the biggies have rich traditions that span decades. we do too except our is about losing. in addition, their alumni base is a weeeeeeee bit larger than ours too.

how about you personally go door-to-door and spread the UTEP word? 

[MinerFire]

i give up!!  ----- and i agree you do deserve more, but its about the whole city coming together, that is the only way... We cant start any type of traditions with excuses... if the other people arent coming something must be done to help lead them this way... promotions, more advertising, something, anything.... bigger crowds, equals more money coming in, better facilities, easier to recruit which leads to better teams, its a domino effect ----